Consumerium:Village pump: Difference between revisions

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    The purpose of this page is to ask questions about how we should go about things here and answering them.
    The purpose of this page is to ask questions about how we should go about things here and answering them.
    ----
     
    This name is not good ihmo. There is nothing to buy and nothing to sell at a village pump. It is just a place to lose the soap. Please don't copy the english wiki for the sake of it.
     
    == first steps ==
     
     
    How long do we have to wait before we can start working on the research wiki?
     
    :A "much simpler pilot project" would be to just assemble the [[Consumerium:intermediate page]]s.  ''The [[Research Wiki]] consists of such pages, but we don't know what they look like yet.  So please help with that.''
     
     
    == grand sweeping vision (tentative) ==
     
     
    :Maybe the name consumerpedia makes sense for the ordinary end user interface to the [[Consumerium:intermediate page]]s?  It would make sense to specialize the user interface for those doing such lookup - maybe we should keep using [[mediawiki]] or [[GetWiki]] for that purpose.  But see [[Consumerium Service access]], this is only one of several types of access.  And the [[Signal Wiki]] is hopefully stuff that we can truly rely on, that has gone through some quite serious vetting.
     
     
     
    After extensive reading, I understand this place to be for the purposes of planning an unbelievably large-scale project.  I do not mean to discourage you when I say that this sounds profoundly overengineered to me.  It disappoints me greatly to say that, because I was very excited to first see this place.  But after reading at least a dozen pages, I have no confidence that I can be of any use here.  I wish you all good luck.  If any of you have a desire to put together a much simpler pilot project, please contact me.  My email address consists of the first letter of my first name, the first four letters of my last name, and @channel1.com.  peace, [[User:DanKeshet|DanKeshet]]
     
    :The original time-scale for implementing the planned [[Features]], which are way ambitious as I've stated from the begining of this project on, has in my mind been 10 to 15 years, out of which two years have now elapsed, with the [[Goals and means of Consumerium|mission statement]] online. All help is appreciated and yes, we will have to start with a small pilot. --[[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 22:44, 11 Mar 2004 (EET)
     
    ::You know what?  Let me make some edits at [[user:DanKeshet/scratchpad]] and  see whether my vision fits with yours.  [[User:DanKeshet|DanKeshet]] 02:14, 12 Mar 2004 (EET)
     
    :::You are correct that the original vision was "profoundly overengineered" in the hardware sense.  If you look at [[Hardware Requirements]] you see all kinds of hardware thrown at non-problems.  But that's been toned down somewhat, and there's thinking about [[audio]] and other [[terminal device]]s that already exist, that would not require hundreds of dollars of custom hardware per end user.  But there are stores like the [[Big Carrot]] that prove that there is a market for a complete and exact solution that really does offer some guarantees that the data is accurate.
     
    :::A "much simpler pilot project" would be to just assemble the [[Consumerium:intermediate page]]s.  That is roughly the scale of [[Metaweb]], which is doing exactly that.  There's no reason at all not to start that right now.  They too have very long term plans for a [[semantic web]] and perhaps even make Stephenson's [http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=Young_Lady's_Illustrated_Primer Young Lady's Illustrated Primer] work, making education really incredibly cheap.  That too is a one-generation plan.
     
     
    == grumbling about potential competitors ==
     
    ::[[Consumerpedia]] seems to be trying to [[usurper|usurp]] this function;  They are not [[troll-friendly]] and so can't be much more than a prototype.
     
    == rename "Village Pump" page to ??? ==
     
    * [[Consumerium:Village pump]]
    * [[Consumerium:Market Place]]
    * bistro
    * [[Consumerium:Irrigation hub]]
    * [[Consumerium:Random chatter]]
    * [[Consumerium:Party]]
     
     
     
    "Village Pump" is not good ihmo. There is nothing to buy and nothing to sell at a village pump. It is just a place to lose the soap. Please don't copy the english wiki for the sake of it.


    :Why not copy the 'pedia, it'll make people coming from [[Wikipedia]] feel much more home quickly.
    :Why not copy the 'pedia, it'll make people coming from [[Wikipedia]] feel much more home quickly.


    :::This is a good reason NOT to copy it, considering that we get Lir and Angela coming over... not the good Wikipedia users.
    ::::I completely embrace the concept of following the stylistic format of that occupied territory at another [[large public wiki]]. The sheep image is so apropro for subjects of the english Wiki's current administration, but we probably concur that visitors to this site aspire to be less like sheep. I am a strong advocate of modeling respect and mature adult behavior in all adminstrative approaches, but the troll game seems about on the level of what's going on over there for now. Whatever this means about an image for this page at this juncture, I don't know, but eventually an image of adult humans in a normal context at a village pump would be most consistent with a deprogrammed, self-actualized, inteligent mindset folks over here probably hope to propagate. [[User:Bird|Bird]] 10:13, 13 Apr 2004 (EEST)


    My [[Consumerium:Market Place]] was a much better one.
    :::::[[Trolls]] clearly are in consensus on this point, yes, troll playing is about as good as it gets, when your opponents, sadly, are this kind of trash:  http://mail.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2004-April/000004.html
    :That name would indicate there is something for sale there. I've been thinking that once we have some preliminary [[XML]] ready, then we have to set up [[Consumerium:Pseudore]] (Consumerium PSEUDo StORE), a sort of game or playground where we can test the functionality of our markup and simulate different situations eg. handling parties who wish to input [[Disinformation]] to undermine the [[Integrity]] and [[Reputation]] of the system. I'll iterate on this once it's time. [[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 14:43 Jun 15, 2003 (EEST)
     
     
    "[[Consumerium:Market Place]]" would indicate there is something for sale there.
    I've been thinking that once we have some preliminary [[XML]] ready, then we have to set up [[Consumerium:Pseudore]] (Consumerium PSEUDo StORE), a sort of game or playground where we can test the functionality of our markup and simulate different situations eg. handling parties who wish to input [[Disinformation]] to undermine the [[Integrity]] and [[Reputation]] of the system. I'll iterate on this once it's time. [[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 14:43 Jun 15, 2003 (EEST)


    ::We already had one such incident, the arrival of a party who inputs disinformation and commits [[sysop vandalism]] at another [[large public wiki]], who had to be driven off.  It would be good to deal with these, as you suggest, in a more disciplined and systematic role-playing way.  Trolls do not want to have to do it the old-fashioned way.  THe time may have come for this.
    ::We already had one such incident, the arrival of a party who inputs disinformation and commits [[sysop vandalism]] at another [[large public wiki]], who had to be driven off.  It would be good to deal with these, as you suggest, in a more disciplined and systematic role-playing way.  Trolls do not want to have to do it the old-fashioned way.  THe time may have come for this.
    Line 19: Line 64:
    :::Trolls do!
    :::Trolls do!


    ----


    Hello consumerists. I'm not sure who's in charge around here, but whoever it is, read this. Everyone else, go away ;)
    By the way, not everyone calls their Q&A page the village pump. The French Wikipedia has a "bistro" for example. -- [[User:Tim Starling|Tim Starling]] 11:49, 13 Oct 2003 (EEST)
     
    :Sure. Maybe [[Consumerium:Irrigation hub]] would have been a better name [[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 12:28, 13 Oct 2003 (EEST)
     
    ::Propose [[Consumerium:Party]]. That can be like a garden party, or like a political party.  Make sense?
     
    :::Umm... No?
     
    ::::You don't like parties?
     
    == MediaWiki mailing list (delete after 2004-05-15) ==


    :Typical Wikipedian fascist attitude.
    Hello consumerists.


    I am a Wikipedia developer, and we're trying to get all system administrators who are using our software to join the newly-created MediaWiki-l mailing list. We will use this list to tell you about bugs, new releases, security problems, etc. In particular, there is a minor security flaw which we are working to fix at the moment. We expect the volume of this list to be very low.
    I am a Wikipedia developer, and we're trying to get all system administrators who are using our software to join the newly-created MediaWiki-l mailing list. We will use this list to tell you about bugs, new releases, security problems, etc. In particular, there is a minor security flaw which we are working to fix at the moment. We expect the volume of this list to be very low.
    Line 33: Line 87:
    :Thanks, I'll do that.
    :Thanks, I'll do that.


    By the way, not everyone calls their Q&A page the village pump. The French Wikipedia has a "bistro" for example. -- [[User:Tim Starling|Tim Starling]] 11:49, 13 Oct 2003 (EEST)
    == discussion ==


    :Sure. Maybe [[Consumerium:Irrigation hub]] would have been a better name [[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 12:28, 13 Oct 2003 (EEST)
    Heh.  I was in the process of starting the exact same thing, only I was going to call it consumerpedia.  Most excellent.  I'm glad to find like-minded people. [[User:DanKeshet|DanKeshet]]


    ::Propose [[Consumerium:Party]].  That can be like a garden party, or like a political party.  Make sense?


    :::Umm... No?
    <sub>The logo is from [[w:Wikipedia:Village Pump]]</sub>


    ::::You don't like parties?


    ----
    ----
    Heh.  I was in the process of starting the exact same thing, only I was going to call it consumerpedia.  Most excellent.  I'm glad to find like-minded people. [[User:DanKeshet|DanKeshet]]


    :Maybe the name consumerpedia makes sense for the ordinary end user interface to the [[Consumerium:intermediate page]]s?  It would make sense to specialize the user interface for those doing such lookup - maybe we should keep using [[mediawiki]] or [[GetWiki]] for that purpose.  But see [[Consumerium Service access]], this is only one of several types of access.  And the [[Signal Wiki]] is hopefully stuff that we can truly rely on, that has gone through some quite serious vetting.
    New wiki starting up that seems related. Since it already links to consumerium, I thought it would be polite to link back (is there a better place to put this link ?).


    After extensive reading, I understand this place to be for the purposes of planning an unbelievably large-scale project. I do not mean to discourage you when I say that this sounds profoundly overengineered to me.  It disappoints me greatly to say that, because I was very excited to first see this place.  But after reading at least a dozen pages, I have no confidence that I can be of any use here.  I wish you all good luck.  If any of you have a desire to put together a much simpler pilot project, please contact me.  My email address consists of the first letter of my first name, the first four letters of my last name, and @channel1.com. peace, [[User:DanKeshet|DanKeshet]]
    CorpKnowPedia, tracking the corporate landscape.
    http://professorbikeybike.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page


    :The original time-scale for implementing the planned [[Features]], which are way ambitious as I've stated from the begining of this project on, has in my mind been 10 to 15 years, out of which two years have now elapsed, with the [[Goals and means of Consumerium|mission statement]] online. All help is appreciated and yes, we will have to start with a small pilot. --[[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 22:44, 11 Mar 2004 (EET)
    ----
     
    <sub>The logo is from [[w:Wikipedia:Village Pump]]</sub>

    Latest revision as of 02:00, 17 April 2004

    File:Village pump.jpg

    Hi and welcome to the Consumerium Village pump.

    The purpose of this page is to ask questions about how we should go about things here and answering them.


    first steps

    How long do we have to wait before we can start working on the research wiki?

    A "much simpler pilot project" would be to just assemble the Consumerium:intermediate pages. The Research Wiki consists of such pages, but we don't know what they look like yet. So please help with that.


    grand sweeping vision (tentative)

    Maybe the name consumerpedia makes sense for the ordinary end user interface to the Consumerium:intermediate pages? It would make sense to specialize the user interface for those doing such lookup - maybe we should keep using mediawiki or GetWiki for that purpose. But see Consumerium Service access, this is only one of several types of access. And the Signal Wiki is hopefully stuff that we can truly rely on, that has gone through some quite serious vetting.


    After extensive reading, I understand this place to be for the purposes of planning an unbelievably large-scale project. I do not mean to discourage you when I say that this sounds profoundly overengineered to me. It disappoints me greatly to say that, because I was very excited to first see this place. But after reading at least a dozen pages, I have no confidence that I can be of any use here. I wish you all good luck. If any of you have a desire to put together a much simpler pilot project, please contact me. My email address consists of the first letter of my first name, the first four letters of my last name, and @channel1.com. peace, DanKeshet

    The original time-scale for implementing the planned Features, which are way ambitious as I've stated from the begining of this project on, has in my mind been 10 to 15 years, out of which two years have now elapsed, with the mission statement online. All help is appreciated and yes, we will have to start with a small pilot. --Juxo 22:44, 11 Mar 2004 (EET)
    You know what? Let me make some edits at user:DanKeshet/scratchpad and see whether my vision fits with yours. DanKeshet 02:14, 12 Mar 2004 (EET)
    You are correct that the original vision was "profoundly overengineered" in the hardware sense. If you look at Hardware Requirements you see all kinds of hardware thrown at non-problems. But that's been toned down somewhat, and there's thinking about audio and other terminal devices that already exist, that would not require hundreds of dollars of custom hardware per end user. But there are stores like the Big Carrot that prove that there is a market for a complete and exact solution that really does offer some guarantees that the data is accurate.
    A "much simpler pilot project" would be to just assemble the Consumerium:intermediate pages. That is roughly the scale of Metaweb, which is doing exactly that. There's no reason at all not to start that right now. They too have very long term plans for a semantic web and perhaps even make Stephenson's Young Lady's Illustrated Primer work, making education really incredibly cheap. That too is a one-generation plan.


    grumbling about potential competitors

    Consumerpedia seems to be trying to usurp this function; They are not troll-friendly and so can't be much more than a prototype.

    rename "Village Pump" page to ???

    * Consumerium:Village pump
* Consumerium:Market Place
* bistro
* Consumerium:Irrigation hub
* Consumerium:Random chatter
* Consumerium:Party


    "Village Pump" is not good ihmo. There is nothing to buy and nothing to sell at a village pump. It is just a place to lose the soap. Please don't copy the english wiki for the sake of it.

    Why not copy the 'pedia, it'll make people coming from Wikipedia feel much more home quickly.
    I completely embrace the concept of following the stylistic format of that occupied territory at another large public wiki. The sheep image is so apropro for subjects of the english Wiki's current administration, but we probably concur that visitors to this site aspire to be less like sheep. I am a strong advocate of modeling respect and mature adult behavior in all adminstrative approaches, but the troll game seems about on the level of what's going on over there for now. Whatever this means about an image for this page at this juncture, I don't know, but eventually an image of adult humans in a normal context at a village pump would be most consistent with a deprogrammed, self-actualized, inteligent mindset folks over here probably hope to propagate. Bird 10:13, 13 Apr 2004 (EEST)
    Trolls clearly are in consensus on this point, yes, troll playing is about as good as it gets, when your opponents, sadly, are this kind of trash: http://mail.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2004-April/000004.html


    "Consumerium:Market Place" would indicate there is something for sale there. I've been thinking that once we have some preliminary XML ready, then we have to set up Consumerium:Pseudore (Consumerium PSEUDo StORE), a sort of game or playground where we can test the functionality of our markup and simulate different situations eg. handling parties who wish to input Disinformation to undermine the Integrity and Reputation of the system. I'll iterate on this once it's time. Juxo 14:43 Jun 15, 2003 (EEST)

    We already had one such incident, the arrival of a party who inputs disinformation and commits sysop vandalism at another large public wiki, who had to be driven off. It would be good to deal with these, as you suggest, in a more disciplined and systematic role-playing way. Trolls do not want to have to do it the old-fashioned way. THe time may have come for this.

    Sigh. No one ever listen to a poor House Elf :-(

    Trolls do!


    By the way, not everyone calls their Q&A page the village pump. The French Wikipedia has a "bistro" for example. -- Tim Starling 11:49, 13 Oct 2003 (EEST)

    Sure. Maybe Consumerium:Irrigation hub would have been a better name Juxo 12:28, 13 Oct 2003 (EEST)
    Propose Consumerium:Party. That can be like a garden party, or like a political party. Make sense?
    Umm... No?
    You don't like parties?

    MediaWiki mailing list (delete after 2004-05-15)

    Hello consumerists.

    I am a Wikipedia developer, and we're trying to get all system administrators who are using our software to join the newly-created MediaWiki-l mailing list. We will use this list to tell you about bugs, new releases, security problems, etc. In particular, there is a minor security flaw which we are working to fix at the moment. We expect the volume of this list to be very low.

    To subscribe, enter your details at:

    http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l

    Thanks, I'll do that.

    discussion

    Heh. I was in the process of starting the exact same thing, only I was going to call it consumerpedia. Most excellent. I'm glad to find like-minded people. DanKeshet


    The logo is from w:Wikipedia:Village Pump


    New wiki starting up that seems related. Since it already links to consumerium, I thought it would be polite to link back (is there a better place to put this link ?).

    CorpKnowPedia, tracking the corporate landscape. http://professorbikeybike.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

    Retrieved from "https://develop.consumerium.org/w/index.php?title=Consumerium:Village_pump&oldid=13638"