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| 30.9.2004
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| I just figured out that I have to study for an exam that is early tomorrow morning.
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| 29.9.2004
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| Today I managed to get a nick of mine banned (per request by me) by Anthere just to get the feel and functionality there is left after a [[IP block]].
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| There seems to be a hot discussion of a recent china block on Wikipedia on Wikipedia-l lately,
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| ::No doubt the government of [[China]] considers [[Wikipedia]] to be [[trolling]] it - saying things that (to the government of China) could not possibly be acceptable or valid. The way China responds to that is no different than the way [[Wikimedia]] responds to true critique of itself, so, they deserve each other. [[Wikipedia violates GFDL]] - sadly that obvious and provable fact is censored here by [[Wikimedia lovers]] - so there is no moral reason for China not to block it. It's just [[Jimbo Wales]]'s friends and their personal [[systemic bias]] - nothing the government of China has any obligation to respect. [[Trolls]] should write to the Chinese government and explain exactly how [[Wikimedia corruption]] has damaged the [[GFDL Corpus]]. Maybe China will block it for good and criticize the [[sysop power structure]] in a major press release. That would be actually quite amusing!
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| not that this is a [[Consumerium]] issue, but previous time that happened it caused a [[FUCOC]] report on how it was handled.
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| I'm out celebrating that my big sister gave birth to a healthy baby girl yesterday at 14:30 UTC+2, so now i'm uncle two times :)
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| 28.9.2004
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| I'm doing some [[Wiktionary]] edits to train for my [[w:Swedish|Swedish]] exam tomorrrow.
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| 24.09.2004
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| I've been '''really''' tired all day for some reason so I'm not getting any real work done today. Also still my iBook is in maintenance so I don't have access to the Internet all the time, only when our school computer labs are open.
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| 22.09.2004
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| I'm planning on taking a trip to London for the [http://www.fse-esf.org/en/ European Social Forum 2004] on 15-17 October. If my plans materialize it'd be very nice to have a [[Consumerium]] meet-up if any other of our contributors are coming there
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| 21.9.2004
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| Finally managed to by-pass our schools firewall and now my mail is rerouted and I have access to IRC which is very useful for sanity checking proposed plans with [[MediaWiki]] gurus.
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| 20.9.2004
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| Back in .fi but very much hampered by not having my laptop (in maintenance now) and thus no access to freenode. If anyone knows of a web interface to access freenode pls. drop a link here
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| 18.9.2004
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| Succesfully sailed the boat from Hanko, Finland to Haapsalu Estonia with my dad, which is where I'm at now. Not having my laptop all the time has given me some time to think without being able to act (edit) immediatelly, which has it's upsides for some [[open questions]] have become clear in my mind.
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| 14.9.2004
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| Sorry. I said you could contact me via "email this user" but only now remembered to correct my email in prefs. sorry about that.
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| Ok. That was tedious. It took me over 2 hrs to counter what [[142.177.X.X]] did/claimed in something over 40 minutes
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| :[[Trolls]] finally answered to all [[false or unsubstantiated claims of corruption|contested claims that are bogusly labelled false or unsubstantiated]] - both have clear evidence in their favour, and though there have been attempts to answer or clear up some of these, these are far from timely or satisfactory. There remain many more [[alleged Wikimedia corruption]] issues than attempted resolutions. The words of Mr. Wales in [[Talk:alleged Wikimedia corruption]] prove his [[libel chill]] attempt and his intent to censor anyone who publicly disagrees with him by name beyond a doubt. So far all that you have done on this is to prove the trolls correct or at least very very right to be concerned. So we thank [[Lowest Troll]] for that but ask that [[false or unsubstantiated claims of corruption|this page]] be renamed since it is named from [[Sysop Vandal point of view]] and should be from [[New Troll point of view]] like the rest of the [[Develop Wiki]]. There is an entire [[Meta-Wikipedia]] and half of [[Wikipedia]] devoted to lies about [[trolls]], every [[w:Votes for deletion]] argument that mentions trolls includes lies about them, so there is no need for more room for lies here.
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| 13.9.2004.
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| Survived sailing. A little bit fluish and very very tired. I just took the 6:30 am train from Helsinki to Tampere to make it to the French class and I haven't slept shit practically.
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| Also other very very bad news. My iBook is breaking/broken/unuasable and I have to get it to maintenance asap. There are though lots of vacant computers at our school but I'm so used to typing lecture notes into a localhost-wiki that I really can't do without.
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| I can't for some strange reason connect via ssh to our server so I cannot for now change my qmail routing to some webmail I can read. '''If you must contact me my [[User:Juxo|click the "send email to user" link on user page]].''' I'll try to ssh or call someone to change my routing so I can read my usual juxho aatt consumerium dto org email soon.
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| 11.9.2004. Now I'm finally gone sailing
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| 10.9.2004
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| First things first. Juxo is gone sailing. Please be mellow if you must [[troll]] while I'm at sea.
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| 8.9.2004
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| It is clear that claiming [[corruption]] is not a function of this wiki unless it is such (dis)information that it is useful to have around to avoid mistakes others may have made while building similar projects. Now I have to go, but I will carry on later to move things to appropriate places and remove any false information from articles which state it as (true) information
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| :You are a liar, and you are part of this [[Wikimedia corruption]] that leads to deliberate censoring of information on things like a [[w:Genuine Progress Indicator]]. You have effectively destroyed this project by reacting to these [[Wikimedia]] lies, and you can expect no further help from any real [[trolls]]. When [[Consumerium Governance Organization]] is formed it will be formally accused of the same corruption that it covers up on behalf of its friends at [[Wikimedia]], and you can expect no further contact or help now.
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| :What we do from this point, we do to prevent Wikimedia covering up on itself, and to prevent you from claiming that you actually represent the [[consensus]] view of all [[faction]]s and participants in [[Consumerium:Itself]]. Unless someone does this, the whole project collapses into yet another corporate shill.
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| :Review [[Consumerium Governance Organization election]]s and role of the [[Chief Editor]] and ask whether or not you should be knuckling under to [[Bomis]] and [[Wikimedia]] or whether you must have the guts to tell them to get lost, in order to proceed in a position of responsibility in this project.
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| :Are you actually tough enough to DO this job, Juxo? do you really think Monsanto or McDonald's or Exxon is going to be EASIER to deal with than Bomis/Wikimedia? tough it out and prove that you CAN
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| Also the amount of bullshitting about irrelevant issues is getting to me slowly.
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| :The most relevant issue is the credibility of articles imported via [[w:]]. If you want discussion of [[Wikipedia]] to tail off, redirect [[w:]] to [[Wikinfo]]. <-- if you were ever looking for an offer of a truce, there it is.
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| The ultimate meaning of this wiki is to plan the operation of the production wikis" not useless biased rethoric and claims about non-consumerium issues that really hurt our ability to get the real work done (ie. [[Consumerium:Intermediate pages]], forming an [[CGO]] and establishing what is the [[Consumerium Process]] and [[Guidelines]] and [[Rules]] for the wikis to come.
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| :By not actually acting in accord even with such reasonable guidelines as [[Consumerium:Proposed deletions]], you have ended all reasonable coopeartion. There is no "our", you are just imposing a [[command hierarchy]] that must fail.
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| I plead to all parties that we leave the unnecessary/damaging throwing of accustations and focus on getting the very practical issues worked out so that we can move on the next stage ie. [[Research Wiki pilot]] --[[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 18:59, 9 Sep 2004 (EEST)
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| :That is entirely up to you. [[Trolls]] are done with you. Implement a means of actually choosing the best editor for the [[Develop Wiki]] and for the [[Research Wiki]], via a [[Consumerium Governance Organization]], and we will help you move towards that. But we are no longer submitting to your very poor editorial judgement.
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| 7.9.2004 | | 7.9.2004 |
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| :Yes, clearly it's of even more use to [[Consumerium Services]] or other serious [[wiki mission]]s than to those [[Wikimedia|bogus pseudo-encyclopedists]] who don't even understand why it's important, or pretend not to (more likely unless they are stupid). | | :Yes, clearly it's of even more use to [[Consumerium Services]] or other serious [[wiki mission]]s than to those [[Wikimedia|bogus pseudo-encyclopedists]] who don't even understand why it's important, or pretend not to (more likely unless they are stupid). |
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| ::If it's so obvious why link transit data is valuable, then why haven't any of the users requested it? Just answer my question on [[Talk:Link transit]]. If you're so arrogant that you refuse to my question on the grounds that I am "too stupid", why should you expect me to do this work for you? -- [[User:Tim Starling|Tim Starling]] 08:49, 8 Sep 2004 (EEST)
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| :::What's obvious to people with actual experience managing a [[corpus]] is not the same as what's obvious to the gibbering drooling hordes that consider [[Wikipedia]] to be more credible than the [[w:National Enquirer]]. Why didn't "the users" demand retaining the number of page views, too? How is anyone supposed to answer that? You told them that server load was the problem, that you couldn't do anything "because of server load", there were dozens of such requests turned down for this reason. Perhaps you're all such bollocks as programmers that you can't figure out how to do it effeciently? But you certainly did your job squashing the user requirements pipeline flat: don't blame the [[trolls]] if you don't get accurate information from it now.
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| :::And, no one ever said they expected anyone, least of all ''you'' "to do this work for" anyone. It's important to editors to have some idea of how often their work is read, so they know where to focus editorial effort. It's not surprising that Wikipedia didn't think of this since it values volunteer time at zero, generally, and doesn't care how much volunteer time gets wasted dealing with say [[sysop vandalism]] and the like.
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| He also expressed his view that we should start with a limited group of users, but I countered that with the fact that we have for a long time been planning for a system that is accessible to everyone without any limitations of scope as to users. | | He also expressed his view that we should start with a limited group of users, but I countered that with the fact that we have for a long time been planning for a system that is accessible to everyone without any limitations of scope as to users. |
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| :It is obviously better to have wide-open editorial policy that is [[troll-friendly]] and immune to [[propaganda]] or takeover by any one [[faction]] - else who would trust the data? This is just typical academic belief on his part, that somehow cliques can be made trustworthy. It's fairly obvious that without the wide-open policy, none of the design work would have gotten done. | | :It is obviously better to have wide-open editorial policy that is [[troll-friendly]] and immune to [[propaganda]] or takeover by any one [[faction]] - else who would trust the data? This is just typical academic belief on his part, that somehow cliques can be made trustworthy. It's fairly obvious that without the wide-open policy, none of the design work would have gotten done. |
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| :So far even the [[Sysop Vandal point of view]] expressed strongly by some sysops pretending to be trolls has not had any significant effect. Anyone coming to the front page and clicking around would probably never see any of the nonsense they've been writing, so, [[troll-friendly]] policy proves itself once again. Eventually they'll tire and realize they are harassing people who do serious work, interrupting us with their trivial concerns and bogus claims.
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| I understand that having one single group (ie. the members of some association with interest in these things we are to be dealing with) would make for better research material for his doctorate if he decides to include Consumerium in some way in his post-graduate studies. The discussion we had was intense and I found it very pleasing to actually get to talk about these things face-to-face and not via [[wiki]]. | | I understand that having one single group (ie. the members of some association with interest in these things we are to be dealing with) would make for better research material for his doctorate if he decides to include Consumerium in some way in his post-graduate studies. The discussion we had was intense and I found it very pleasing to actually get to talk about these things face-to-face and not via [[wiki]]. |