Editing User:Jukeboksi/Blog/February2004

10.2.2004

:Trolls request that [[User:Juxo]] state some opinion about the issue at [[User_talk:Angela]] (deleting talk files that contain clear warnings about things like use of [[echo chamber]] tactics).  Trolls don't object to moving certain advice to not trust certain people to [[142.X.X.X/Flames]] but we do object to simply deleting talk without answering to any of the points therein.

:Also, since Wikipedian Trash seem to be willing to come here, there's no good reason to believe that quality people wasting their time at Wikipedia fighting them might not like to come here also, where there's a more level playing field.

4.2.2004

It's been looking like for some time now that to make [[Transparent Consumerium]] work we will have to develop into the direction of multiple regional wikis thus [[Consumeria]] (plural), but the real issue to solve is how to arrange them and make them interact smoothly. If all internal content is licensed under [[GFDL]] it would make governance easier because of the ability to fork.

:No, just sending dissidents off to compete with you doesn't "make governance easier".  There should be one regional Consumerium per ecologically and linguistically sane region, and it must work hard to retain a monopoly.  To allow corporate spinoffs and competitors with tons of money to take the same content and create an only slightly fudged version destroys the integrity of the whole system.  It's a cop-out.  A more robust consortium than GFDL allows for must be there.  Creative Commons might allow for the kind of use we need for internal content.

Naturally there will be an international [[Consumerium]] for multinational companies and brands. Also an advantage in Consumeria approach is that server load can be broken down into many small streams and connection costs reduced by hosting locally. 

:Yes, local hosting makes sense, and local variants working in local languages make sense.  Permitting arbitrary spinoffs does not.  But arbitrary hosting is fine.

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2.2.2004

I'm quite beat now and for the unseen future. There is 40 days remaining to the one-year anniversary of this [[wiki]] so maybe try to get this mess fixed by then.

:The filling-in process has got stalled due to the need to outline the issues with [[sysop vandalism]] and such.  However a benefit is that Consumerium now has the best description of what goes wrong on wiki [[sysop power structure]], and is way ahead of Meatball and Meta-Wikipedia and most others in this regard.
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-.2.2004
-I installed MacPython and I'm discovering the language whenever I feel nerdy :) I have also taken to hang around #moin which is the channel for [[MoinMoinWiki]] discussions. I hear MoinMoin is very modular which would be an advantage over [[Mediawiki]]
-:They at least keep their [[parser]] separate so a [[wikitext standard]] will be easy to support.  Most of the rest of the advantages come from just being in [[Python]].  The [[D programming language]] is also very interesting, for high performance code, but hopefully none of that is needed.
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-.2.2004
-Yiii! I just got a fresh copy of "The State of The World 2004" by the Worldwatch institute. I'll try to read it through if i get some of my ability to concentrate back and make notes. They have put some [http://www.worldwatch.org/pubs/sow/2004/ good stuff on-line] that aligns very well with what we've been discovering. remember to [http://www.worldwatch.org/topics/consumption/ click thru to their Online Feature: Consumption]
-:Yes, worldwatch is very very good.
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-.2.2004
-I updated the [[MySQL dump]] today but I'm worried that we don't seem to be making progress in developing what we [[Goals and means of Consumerium|sent out to do]]. It must be time to do some retrospection and try to clean this wiki up and get some '''practical solutions to the remaining problems and open questions instead of writing more [[142.177.X.X/Anti Wikipedia Rants|Anti Wikipedia Rants (AWR)]].'''
-:That would be easier if we were not using [[mediawiki]], which seems to attract diseased flies.
-:OK, perhaps it's time to knock down the open links (notice that there are few open links in the [[wiki management]] discussions!  [[Wikipedia]] provides so many bad examples that it's easy to dissect it and come up with long lists of things to watch out for!
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-.2.2004
-The [[MySQL dump]] has been online for over three weeks and there is just one download of it, which I guess is a sign indicating that the general crowd following the development around here wish that we focus and carry on what we've been planning for almost a year now.
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 .2.2004
-:Trolls request that [[User:Juxo]] state some opinion about the issue at [[User_talk:Angela]] (deleting talk files that contain clear warnings about things like use of [[echo chamber]] tactics).  Trolls don't object to moving certain advice to not trust certain people to [[142.X.X.X/Flames]] but we do object to simply deleting talk without answering to any of the points therein.  (11.2.2004:  note the totally different attitude obvious in [[142.X.X.X/Tim_Starling]] vs. that in [[142.X.X.X/Angela]] - some people know what the issues are and take responsibility for their own actions, others don't care and just excuse themselves based on what others are doing, and these dialogues help make that crystal clear.  [[Conflicts_between_users]] needs some comment also, and [[Talk:Wiki_management]])
+:Trolls request that [[User:Juxo]] state some opinion about the issue at [[User_talk:Angela]] (deleting talk files that contain clear warnings about things like use of [[echo chamber]] tactics).  Trolls don't object to moving certain advice to not trust certain people to [[142.X.X.X/Flames]] but we do object to simply deleting talk without answering to any of the points therein.
-:Also, since Wikipedian Trash seem to be willing to come here, there's no good reason to believe that quality people wasting their time at Wikipedia fighting them might not like to come here also, where there's a more level playing field.  And more intelligent beliefs about [[Consumerium Governance]] at least.
+:Also, since Wikipedian Trash seem to be willing to come here, there's no good reason to believe that quality people wasting their time at Wikipedia fighting them might not like to come here also, where there's a more level playing field.
 .2.2004