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The references to [[m:troll]] and [[w:Internet troll]] are a bit out of date - the article in [[Wikipedia]] has been improved, and the one in [[Meta-Wikipedia]] has been vandalized by the imposition of [[m:community point of view]]. Which sadly used to be something [[sysop power structure|they]] tried to work against and balance, but now try to enforce. If they get a trademark on the term "wikipedia" (Which should be generic) who knows what damage they'll do? | The references to [[m:troll]] and [[w:Internet troll]] are a bit out of date - the article in [[Wikipedia]] has been improved, and the one in [[Meta-Wikipedia]] has been vandalized by the imposition of [[m:community point of view]]. Which sadly used to be something [[sysop power structure|they]] tried to work against and balance, but now try to enforce. If they get a trademark on the term "wikipedia" (Which should be generic) who knows what damage they'll do? | ||
=== Troll ethics (GFDL by Sean B. Palmer, with replies) === | |||
What makes an introlligent person these days? [[Trolls]] contains some pertinent information, but consumerium has a brand of troll which, whilst not just limited to [[consumerium:itself]], is defying categorization under the current notion of "troll". | |||
In a sense, the following rough criteria also provide a counterpoint to the highly optimistic [[Trolls]] article: | |||
*'''Identitylessness'''. These trolls espouse identitylessness, but they fall extremely short for two reasons. 1) They are limited by the media within which they work, viz. language and online communication from IRC to wiki. 2) Some trolls are sloppy and haven't read The Hobbit: they come out during the daytime. As amusing and as ironic as this is, it's so counteracts the core troll criteria on [[Trolls]] that one wonders whether the trolling faction as a whole has some collective ego that it's unable to shake off, a pride in what it's doing, and a mischevious sense of wanting to effect so much of a change in the community that it's effectively becoming a part of it. Trolls are only human, after all. | |||
*'''Cognitive dissonance'''. This cannot be over emphasized. The more intelligent the troll, the better it is at covering its tracks. The better it is at covering its tracks, aliasing, subverting its inherent persona, and using cognitive dissonance. It's hard work being a troll; the effort spent in employing all of these tactics is diverted from the core aim of being an efficient cultural unit. | |||
*'''Refutation of opinion'''. If you seek a troll's identity, as one troll said you are making an "ontological death threat". Said troll would be advised to avoid the use of the word "ontological" in future; nontheless, trolls in a sense don't have an identity which can be discovered. Just as the meatball wiki community has no centre, | |||
:''This is nonsense, [[Sunir Shah]] is that centre, and what's more, he probably claimed to be the first [[Lowest Troll]] anywhere. But broke troll protocol in many ways probably, including his support for [[outing]] which trolls do not do (it being a glass houses thing).'' | |||
and ESP has no centre, trolls have no center. It's a suffusion of opinions that makes a faction, and as troll:illusionated said (troll:rottentroll was much more careful, incidentally) even the concept of a faction is liquid. | |||
:''So liquid that nobody will know what you're talking about in trying to differentiate the two. Liquidity begins by dissolving something solid, like identity. There's no [[interwiki identity standard]] so it's very hard to know what you're referring to with those names. [[Imposed pseudonym]]s or [[throwaway identity]] is remarkably bad as a way to deal with [[alleged and collective identity]].'' | |||
This is not anti-troll propoganda: very much to the contrary, it illustrates just how much of an impact trolls can have in so short a time. But it's also a warning to the introlligent community that organization and openness does have virtues, | |||
:''but others pursue those - to be a troll is to break up institutions and seek closure and privacy and secrecy in very specific ways, not to oppose those concepts in general; Trolls do not oppose any concepts in general, that would make them guilty of [[theology]] or [[philosophy]]. And trolls are more like an [[ecology]] thing.'' | |||
and that whilst seeking the way of the troll can have many benefits, its dangers and disadvantages are legion. | |||
:''Thus the [m:legion of trolls] which included a few notorious [[wiki witchhunt]]ers among its self-declared ranks, and others who ended up being confused for being trolls, etc., etc., etc. In a phrase: Yeah we know.'' | |||
If you display intelligent and creative thought whilst hiding your identity, people will becomed intrigued and try to establish your identity so that they don't lose a valuable source of information. It's not mallicious, it's natural. It's only mallicious when one tries to seek a troll's identity to destroy that troll, and note under refutation of opinion in the criteria above that this may be less of an issue than the troll collective seems at this moment to think. | |||
:''but of course, once semi-reliable troll tracking exists, then, ANYONE who seeks to silence that troll may be able to do so. When the enemy actors much outnumber and outpower [[faction|friends]] or even [[Consumerium:We|those committed to fairness by some definition]], it is wise simply to count on people's natural curiosity and ability to use google and such to keep the "valuable source of information". Really all they need are [[verb phrase]]s and [[noun phrase]]s that are re-usable. Consider the [[Freemasons]]. They invented this technique, and [[secret handshake]] too probably. [[Reds]], [[Greens]], [[Golds]] usually recognize each other through a rhetoric, also.'' | |||
I have some questions, perhaps a troll would be able to answer. Even someone pretending to be a troll would do, since that would make them a troll. First: do trolls reveal their identities to one another? | |||
:''Probably not [[beyond a reasonable doubt]]'' | |||
Second: what do trolls do about other trolls that turn bad? | |||
:''Since the only real power they have is to pick someone out to be [[driven off by trolls]] somehow without lying about them, [[outing]] them, or breaking any laws, probably, that's what they do. But probably any [[Recyclopedia:faction]] has its own way of deciding how to do [[social exclusion]]. Presumably also access to [[proxy server]]s and such could be withdrawn from those who break whatever counts for "[[ethics]] on [[patroll]]."'' | |||
Third: given that no single troll can ever be aware of the direction of the entire troll movement, how do you correct mistakes as a faction? | |||
:''In principle, that's a problem internal to the [[faction]], that is, one that [[trolls]] should discuss amongst themselves. It's also possible to say that "no single [[Reds|Red]] or Black bloccer can ever be aware of the direction of *that* whole movement", especially if it contains groups that have [[no operational contact]]. But even the [[Blues]] have this, with their corporate shields, and the [[Pinks]] with their [[rape shield]] laws. Everyone has their own ideal of [[privacy]].'' | |||
:''[[Greens]] could answer it simply: they employ metrics like [[nature's services]] and [[natural capital]] and [[biodiversity]] and even agree on some with [[Pinks]] like [[measuring well-being]].'' | |||
:''Finally, the word "[[ontological]]" is a fine old medieval word, and if one is trying to say that a [[metaphysics]] is being invoked while not crediting the idea of metaphysics itself, it's a pretty good word for that. Feel free to use it yourself. Also, feel free to claim to be particular trolls, and if trolls of that nesting range vaguely approve, you might well get a validation that you can use to hide your own identity.'' | |||
:''It's not perfect, but, to be perfect would require inventing something. And trolls try not to do that. Invention is next to damnation.'' | |||
It's true that trolls inspire paranoia amongst their opposites, but some are able to keep aloof and remain sympathisers, and what do you do then? What do trolls do when they get trolled? | |||
:''some are able to keep aloof and remain sympathisers, and what do you do then? What do trolls do when they get trolled?" They troll back obviously. There was a fine example of this on [[ape mother]] that demonstrated many of the [[political virtues]] on both sides.'' | |||
Of course, you should ignore me; I'm just trolling here. | |||