Talk:New Troll point of view: Difference between revisions

← Older edit

VisualWikitext

@@ Line 3: / Line 3: @@
 :Using a username doesn't save you from being labelled "a [[troll]]".  But anyway if you are, just wear it with pride, and advance the [[New Troll point of view]] as best you can.  There is always going to be some resistance to it, and [[systemic bias]] doesn't go away just because of "trying".  I don't know what "tolerable" levels of censorship by racists and fascists are, and I might trust you, Juxo, to say what they are, but I don't trust Mr. Wales to do so.
-:Look, there are obviously good people participating in bad systems (like the [[Wikipedia mailing list]]) or creating weak software (like [[mediawiki]]) to the best of their abilities.  But sometimes you have to just work with another group, a different technology, a different paradigm.  For two years Wales has resisted any attempt to put an [[independent board]] together.  He's created his own problems.
+----------------
+Is the [[usual happy NPOV talk]] the opposite of the NTPOV?
+----
+[[w:User:Timwi]] on the [[vile mailing list]] [http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2004-June/013763.html]:
+:''Any chance we can put this behind us and move forwards?''
+:If we do that, it's going to happen again and again with more and more  newbies.
+:, are just dumb and stupid.
+----
+The essay is a very useful snapshot from a [[New Troll point of view|new troll]] who is obviously trolling us.  Under [[soft security]] ideology he would be "harming the community" and it would be time for [[sysop vigilantiism]].  Thankfully here the established [[trolls]] should just troll back:  "the best situation is where individuals can have bad reputations, but no one can ever have a good reputation."  This is absolutely correct from the point of view of many established trolls.
+It's interesting to have this essay sit in [[New Troll point of view]] itself where it may attract maximum [[trolling]] attention from New Trolls trying to figure out what to do or disagree with (if they disagreed with nothing they'd not be [[trolls]], would they?).  Initially the temptation is there to put links to [[troll-friendly]] and [[world tree]] and etc., but this shouldn't happen because that reinforces the "Old Troll point of view" over new ones.
+[[Trolls]] eat philosophy rather than preach it.  There is no "Consumerium philosophy", certainly, but, there is an approach and a [[Consumerium Governance Organization]] perhaps to sanction a [[Lowest Troll]] to attempt that approach in the long run.  It is really all about having NO philosophy and just choosing only the next best step to do least harm.
+But, some people do seem to need these [[ideology]] statements to get comfort with what is going on.  This essay is a good start, and trolls will gnaw on it for a while in the dark.  Then we will write something that totally disagrees.  ;-)
+----------------
+This was not offensive but it's speculative and pointless.  Obviously if one takes any mass of postings one will find "contradictions between", but if the [[trolls]] refuse to say "who is who" (as they do) then there is no way to respond and leaving this here is to [[require response to hearsay]].  It's fair comment but just not as good as ending the essay on the reference to Foucault!
+=== Notable individuals ===
+[http://develop.consumerium.org/wiki/index.php/142.177.X.X "142"] seems to be into this philosophy (although of course (s)he would dispute the characterization of 142 as an "individual").
+Note however that [http://develop.consumerium.org/wiki/index.php/142.177.X.X/Anti_Wikipedia_Rants some] of 142's positions contrast with the Consumerium pro-troll philosophy, as described above. (for example, 142 advocates excluding certain specific people from positions of power in Consumerium, which is in conflict with the community-shouldn't-exclude philosophy seen above).
+Perhaps the philosophy was misunderstood here; perhaps other people contributed the contradicting parts; perhaps 142 changed hir mind; or perhaps 142 does not have stable "positions", since 142 does not consider itself an individual.
+-------------
+This article needs a section on how [[NTPOV]] helps identity and limit [[wiki spam]], e.g. mention of [[Bomis]].