User:Jukeboksi/Thinking aloud: Difference between revisions

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    (fixing silly names)
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    So...
    ==One or Two wikis?==


    '''This is just thinking aloud, so there are bound to be lots of errors and nonsense'''
    Suppose two wikis, I'll call them [[Opinion Wiki]] and [[Content Wiki]] as working titles.


    There has been some complaints about [[The Consumerium Exchange]] being a misleading name for the facility, which is about '''experessing opinions and support or the lack of for the expressed opinions''' and I have noted this problem that it does not translate well at all, so I propose a new working title: '''[[Opinion Wiki]]''' . This name is in no way "set in stone" due to that this wiki has arrived at a state of incoherence in other words this is a mess and it's largely due to that we started out without any clue on naming conventions or when to write stuff in one article and when to split it to many articles.
    This has advantages:
    ----
    *Better scalability
    As mentioned in [[Campaign#Campaign Management|Campaign]] there is an initial thought of campaign management by wiki which would be easy for the campaigners.
    *Better security (HTTPS?) for [[Content Wiki]] without performance losses in [[Opinion Wiki]]
    *Differentiated [[sysop power structure]] to deal with things that directly alter the [[Consumerium buying signal]] (content) versus not.
    *Use of one to experiment for the others
    *What else is there?


    Thinking about this approach I came to the realisation that why not extend the use of wiki beyond just campaign management so that majority of the user interface to The Consumerium Exchange would be wiki based.
    and disadvantages which would apply only if [[mediawiki]] were used:
     
    *Distinct Recent Changes (could be hacked to show both in one view)
    ==Basic Outline of Opinion Wiki==
    *Double login (can maybe be avoided by sharing the session, or using jabber id)
    Here goes an initial outline of how it would work:
    *Checking link correctness is more work (could be hacked too)
    *Differentiated [[sysop power structure]] easier to subvert by [[usurper]]s unless care is taken
    *What else is there?


    ==Namespaces==
    I hear that [http://openfacts.berlios.de/index-en.phtml?title=Main_Page OpenFacts] have done something like session sharing with multiple wikis with [[MediaWiki]]. Must inquire them about their solution and experiences
    *User - no offending usernames please
    *Group - must correspond to a real-world registered entity
    *VirtualGroup - must not conflict with names of real-world entities
    *Campaign - preferably descriptive names


    ==Set articles and permissions==
    For what I've been able to think lately maybe merging [[Content Wiki]] and [[Opinion Wiki]] into just one [[wiki]] could prove most workable. Since almost all article types have been defined already and will use a [[pseudo namespace]] or a real one if we hack it to support more true namespaces.
    ===User===
    *User/Keys - If a person wishes to sign articles s/he should put keys used here. Protection by social contract and page protection if required (optional)
    *User/MyVotes - every link from here to voting pages will be counted as a vote for the campaign


    ===Group===
    :What about [[Signal:Exxon]] versus [[Research:Exxon]]?  Something has to be debated as research before it is accepted as reliable enough for the [[Consumerium buying signal]] to be affected? Ditch the words "content" and "opinion", they mean nothing.
    *Group - creation of group pages only by registering within the Vault.
    *Group/Keys - keys used for signing articles (optional)
    *Group/OurVotes - every link from here to voting pages will be counted as a vote for the campaign
    *Group/Members - All Group articles editable by those Users listed in this article.
    *Group/Affiliations - Listing affiliations with Companies and other organisations
    *Group/FOAF - With sections Friend, Foe and Neutral. Links to other Groups and VirtualGroups with freeform explanations


    ===VirtualGroup===
    :You're confusing design issues with [[wiki code]] issues.  Don't bend design around [[mediawiki]], it's garbage and will never work on the scale or with the reliability required.  Other wikis do a much better job of dealing with these problems, and will do better in future, certainly. The [[tikiwiki]] people have already dealt with a lot of these issues, and the [[OneBigWiki]] people are working on login and changes issues, although they are wrong to think [[MeatballWiki]] is going to help, it's not a solution, it's another problem.   The [[MoinMoin]] people could merge all this easily since they are using common [[Python]] facilities.
    *VirtualGroup - can be creted freely by any User, but will be disabled if the name is misleading or offending
    *VirtualGroup/Keys - keys used for signing articles (optional)
    *VirtualGroup/OurVotes - every link from here to voting pages will be counted as a vote for the campaign
    *VirtualGroup/Members - All VirtualGroup articles editable by those Users listed in this article. Users may not remove other users from this, only themselves. When the last User removes her/himself from the page the VirtualGroup ceases to exist.  All links to Groups and other VirtualGroups from this page will be recursively followed to find out the total amount of members, real and virtual respectively. Possible links are:
    **User
    **Group
    **VirtualGroup
    *VirtualGroup/FOAF - With sections Friend, Foe and Neutral. Links to other Groups and VirtualGroups with freeform explanations


    ===Campaign===
    :Don't lose the two
    *Campaign - Can be started by Groups and VirtualGroups
    *Campaign/Target - link to the issue being campaigned
    *Campaign/Score - required
    *Campaign/Members - The campaign is editable by these. Recurse to find total amount of members
    *Campaign/Vote - Used as a link-to target from
    **UserName/MyVotes
    **GroupName/OurVotes
    **WikiGroupName/OurVotes


    ==More on Opinion Wiki==
    ===From [[Opinion Wiki]]===
     
    *[[Consumerium User|User]]
    *From these bits of information directed, weighed networks describing distribution of WikiVotes and Campaigners can be formed and the directed networks will be used to calculate indices that can be studied
    *[[Consumerium Troll|Troll]]  
    *Cycles (A is a member of B and B is a member of A) will be autodetected and while the situation persists A and B will have reduced or zero value in the bigger scheme of things
    *[[Consumerium Group|Group]] - must correspond to a real-world registered entity
    *Subarticles can be automatically collapsed to the main article for a better viewing experience
    *[[Consumerium VirtualGroup|VirtualGroup]] - must not conflict with names of real-world entities. Consists of [[Consumerium User|User]]s and [[Consumerium Group|Group]]s and other [[Consumerium VirtualGroup|VirtualGroup]]s
    *Please note that the outline contains mainly only those articles and subarticles required to form hierarchies, not much on  actual content
    *[[Consumerium Campaign|Campaign]] - preferably descriptive names, and preferably recognizable to people doing real world campaigns say in [[NGO]]s.
    *Looks like we are going to have [[The Consumerium Exchange|Three classes of votes]]:
    **WikiVote
    **Direct Vote
    **Indirect Vote
    *Duplicate WikiVotes can occour by accident, by purpose and apparently by design eg. [[Group:Association X Country]] belongs to [[Group:Association X International]]
    **There must be rules on which of the votes gets excluded in this case.
    **The apparent approaches being top-down and bottom-up.  
    **Which is better is a curious question. My guess suggestion is bottom-up so that "Local Votes" get included and "Federal Votes" get excluded
    *This is in no way complete and there is likely a lot of opportunities for new kinds of vandalism
     
    Note that there could be multiple levels of (un)security available for committing changes to Opinion Wiki:
     
    #Anonymous access
    #Access protected by password over HTTP
    #Access protected by password over HTTPS
    #Access protected by GnuPG signatures on save with self claimed keys
    #Access protected by GnuPG signatures on save with keys verified by a third party or Consumerium Vault
    #Access protected by GnuPG signatures on save with keys verified by third parties and Consumerium Vault
     
    ----
    And on...
     
    ==One or Two wikis?==
     
    Suppose two wikis, I'll call them [[Opinion Wiki]] and [[Content Wiki]] as working titles.
     
    This has advantages:
    *Better scalability
    *Better security (HTTPS?) for Opinion Wiki without performance losses in Content Wiki
    *Differentiated sysops
    *What else is there
     
    and disadvantages:
    *Distinct Recent Changes (could be hacked to show both in one view)
    *Double login (can maybe be avoided by sharing the session)
    *Checking link correctness is more work (could be hacked too)
    *Differentiated sysops
    *What else is there


    I hear that [http://openfacts.berlios.de/index-en.phtml?title=Main_Page OpenFacts] have done something like session sharing with multiple wikis with MediaWiki. Must inquire them about their solution and experiences
    ===From [[Content Wiki]]===
    *[[Company]]
    *[[Product]]
    *[[Product Group]]
    *[[WorkDescription]]

    Latest revision as of 19:34, 24 July 2018

    One or Two wikis?

    Suppose two wikis, I'll call them Opinion Wiki and Content Wiki as working titles.

    This has advantages:

    and disadvantages which would apply only if mediawiki were used:

    • Distinct Recent Changes (could be hacked to show both in one view)
    • Double login (can maybe be avoided by sharing the session, or using jabber id)
    • Checking link correctness is more work (could be hacked too)
    • Differentiated sysop power structure easier to subvert by usurpers unless care is taken
    • What else is there?

    I hear that OpenFacts have done something like session sharing with multiple wikis with MediaWiki. Must inquire them about their solution and experiences

    For what I've been able to think lately maybe merging Content Wiki and Opinion Wiki into just one wiki could prove most workable. Since almost all article types have been defined already and will use a pseudo namespace or a real one if we hack it to support more true namespaces.

    What about Signal:Exxon versus Research:Exxon? Something has to be debated as research before it is accepted as reliable enough for the Consumerium buying signal to be affected? Ditch the words "content" and "opinion", they mean nothing.
    You're confusing design issues with wiki code issues. Don't bend design around mediawiki, it's garbage and will never work on the scale or with the reliability required. Other wikis do a much better job of dealing with these problems, and will do better in future, certainly. The tikiwiki people have already dealt with a lot of these issues, and the OneBigWiki people are working on login and changes issues, although they are wrong to think MeatballWiki is going to help, it's not a solution, it's another problem. The MoinMoin people could merge all this easily since they are using common Python facilities.
    Don't lose the two

    From Opinion Wiki

    From Content Wiki