XML/DTD - Revision history

Jukeboksi: note about all new stuff is going to be in sf.net

2003-07-24T00:56:59Z

note about all new stuff is going to be in sf.net

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:56, 24 July 2003
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			'''All new development is at [http://sourceforge.net/projects/ciuml/ sourceforge] so what is here should be considered outdated'''
			----
	The DTDs are @ http://www.consumerium.org/XML/DTD/filename.dtd		The DTDs are @ http://www.consumerium.org/XML/DTD/filename.dtd

Consumerium: Moving m:Person_DTD to talk page, again.

2003-04-25T19:54:18Z

Moving m:Person_DTD to talk page, again.

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:54, 25 April 2003
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	Ecoregion is critical since an export of exactly the same consumer good from one ecological region may be harmless or even constructive, while an export of the same good from another may be devastating, e.g. exporting water from arid regions versus those with icebergs, e.g. exporting pulp wood from tropical forests versus managed temperate tree farms, e.g. cattle living on former deforested rainforest land versus natural pasture.		Ecoregion is critical since an export of exactly the same consumer good from one ecological region may be harmless or even constructive, while an export of the same good from another may be devastating, e.g. exporting water from arid regions versus those with icebergs, e.g. exporting pulp wood from tropical forests versus managed temperate tree farms, e.g. cattle living on former deforested rainforest land versus natural pasture.

	==~~=persons =~~==		==Persons==
	*[[m:person_DTD]]		All persons could have a double identity in consumerium. One of a [[employee]] (participating in an production process) and one of a [[consumer]] (participating in consumption). Some people have multiple jobs simultaneously and this must be taken into account. These different roles can be unconnectable or unified if the person desires so.

	~~: This type~~ of ~~control-freakish markup is shunned by many [[w:wikipedians\|wikipedians]] for understandable reasons, where as [http://disinfopedia.org disinfopedians] and some [[w:NGO\|NGO]]s like it.~~

	~~: As for what I think is that this is way overkill for our purposes. [[Gender]], [[Birthyear]], [[Nationality]], [[Employer]], [[Profession]] and perhaps some contact info should be quite adequate for~~ [[employee]]~~s, [[campaigner]]s~~ and ~~[[commentator]]s. [[w:Anonymous Coward\|Anonymous Coward]]s can~~ of ~~course be dismissed as nobodys more easily then someone who has [[w:GnuPG\|GnuPG]] or commercially signed identities.~~ [[~~Consumer~~]]~~s naturally can reveal as little or much about themselves as they wish. --[[User:Juxo\|Juxo]] 23:21 Apr 15, 2003~~ (~~EEST~~)
	~~::However much or how little you record about a person, it would be useful to make sure that the tag-names don't conflict with more general uses~~. ~~For instance Nationality can mean Birthplace, it can mean Citizenship, it can mean Ethnicity. So Nationality is a bad tag name. Employer?~~ Some people have ~~many, or none. Profession? Not standard across all countries, better to record degrees~~ and ~~certifications, say as Credential~~. ~~And all~~ can be ~~multiple. And how to remain Anonymous while still revealing credentials, so called [[Blind Credential]] is very important.~~
	~~:Good points above.~~

	Identifying individual people unambiguously is more controversial, a two-edged sword. Some activists like [http://amnesty.org Amnesty] and [http://greenpeace.org Greenpeace] do it often, for what they consider clear moral purposes. Other projects like [http://wikipedia.org Wikipedia] have less clear purposes and thus less excuse for "outing" or ~~"shaming". This is not an easy issue for consumerium:~~

	On the one hand certain individuals like [[person X]] and [[person Y]] are engaged in a vast number of unpopular activities, and many would choose to have nothing to do with an enterprise that they profited from. Being sure that the activity is associated with them is impossible without some clear way of identifying individuals and their interests - there is danger that innocents will be targetted if ~~identification is not clear. On~~ the ~~other hand, there is reason to fear "witchhunts" and "dossiers" on ordinary individuals, and automation of~~ person~~-tracking and identification certainly makes this easier.~~

	However, some means of standardizing references to persons seems to be underway in some projects, e.g. wikipedia, anyway. Consumerium may not be able to igore them. There are also reasons to identify "noble" individuals for merit or recognition, e.g. [http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=James_Gustave_Gus_Speth disinfopedia's naming of reliable sources e.g. James Speth]. This can be important to validate information to be used in buying decisions, e.g. [http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIPAESA as the 'authority' in TIPAESA structures].

	== coordination with non-XML name spaces ==		== coordination with non-XML name spaces ==

Jukeboksi: good points there anonymous coward from canada lying about your os, hw and browser (?) ;) You

2003-04-16T00:38:44Z

good points there anonymous coward from canada lying about your os, hw and browser (?) ;) You

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:38, 16 April 2003
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	: As for what I think is that this is way overkill for our purposes. [[Gender]], [[Birthyear]], [[Nationality]], [[Employer]], [[Profession]] and perhaps some contact info should be quite adequate for [[employee]]s, [[campaigner]]s and [[commentator]]s. [[w:Anonymous Coward\|Anonymous Coward]]s can of course be dismissed as nobodys more easily then someone who has [[w:GnuPG\|GnuPG]] or commercially signed identities. [[Consumer]]s naturally can reveal as little or much about themselves as they wish. --[[User:Juxo\|Juxo]] 23:21 Apr 15, 2003 (EEST)		: As for what I think is that this is way overkill for our purposes. [[Gender]], [[Birthyear]], [[Nationality]], [[Employer]], [[Profession]] and perhaps some contact info should be quite adequate for [[employee]]s, [[campaigner]]s and [[commentator]]s. [[w:Anonymous Coward\|Anonymous Coward]]s can of course be dismissed as nobodys more easily then someone who has [[w:GnuPG\|GnuPG]] or commercially signed identities. [[Consumer]]s naturally can reveal as little or much about themselves as they wish. --[[User:Juxo\|Juxo]] 23:21 Apr 15, 2003 (EEST)
	::However much or how little you record about a person, it would be useful to make sure that the tag-names don't conflict with more general uses. For instance Nationality can mean Birthplace, it can mean Citizenship, it can mean Ethnicity. So Nationality is a bad tag name. Employer? Some people have many, or none. Profession? Not standard across all countries, better to record degrees and certifications, say as Credential. And all can be multiple. And how to remain Anonymous while still revealing credentials, so called [[Blind Credential]] is very important.		::However much or how little you record about a person, it would be useful to make sure that the tag-names don't conflict with more general uses. For instance Nationality can mean Birthplace, it can mean Citizenship, it can mean Ethnicity. So Nationality is a bad tag name. Employer? Some people have many, or none. Profession? Not standard across all countries, better to record degrees and certifications, say as Credential. And all can be multiple. And how to remain Anonymous while still revealing credentials, so called [[Blind Credential]] is very important.
			:Good points above.

	Identifying individual people unambiguously is more controversial, a two-edged sword. Some activists like [http://amnesty.org Amnesty] and [http://greenpeace.org Greenpeace] do it often, for what they consider clear moral purposes. Other projects like [http://wikipedia.org Wikipedia] have less clear purposes and thus less excuse for "outing" or "shaming". This is not an easy issue for consumerium:		Identifying individual people unambiguously is more controversial, a two-edged sword. Some activists like [http://amnesty.org Amnesty] and [http://greenpeace.org Greenpeace] do it often, for what they consider clear moral purposes. Other projects like [http://wikipedia.org Wikipedia] have less clear purposes and thus less excuse for "outing" or "shaming". This is not an easy issue for consumerium:

142.177.77.114: general person model that doesn't dig too deep into privacy

2003-04-16T00:33:01Z

general person model that doesn't dig too deep into privacy

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:33, 16 April 2003
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	: As for what I think is that this is way overkill for our purposes. [[Gender]], [[Birthyear]], [[Nationality]], [[Employer]], [[Profession]] and perhaps some contact info should be quite adequate for [[employee]]s, [[campaigner]]s and [[commentator]]s. [[w:Anonymous Coward\|Anonymous Coward]]s can of course be dismissed as nobodys more easily then someone who has [[w:GnuPG\|GnuPG]] or commercially signed identities. [[Consumer]]s naturally can reveal as little or much about themselves as they wish. --[[User:Juxo\|Juxo]] 23:21 Apr 15, 2003 (EEST)		: As for what I think is that this is way overkill for our purposes. [[Gender]], [[Birthyear]], [[Nationality]], [[Employer]], [[Profession]] and perhaps some contact info should be quite adequate for [[employee]]s, [[campaigner]]s and [[commentator]]s. [[w:Anonymous Coward\|Anonymous Coward]]s can of course be dismissed as nobodys more easily then someone who has [[w:GnuPG\|GnuPG]] or commercially signed identities. [[Consumer]]s naturally can reveal as little or much about themselves as they wish. --[[User:Juxo\|Juxo]] 23:21 Apr 15, 2003 (EEST)
			::However much or how little you record about a person, it would be useful to make sure that the tag-names don't conflict with more general uses. For instance Nationality can mean Birthplace, it can mean Citizenship, it can mean Ethnicity. So Nationality is a bad tag name. Employer? Some people have many, or none. Profession? Not standard across all countries, better to record degrees and certifications, say as Credential. And all can be multiple. And how to remain Anonymous while still revealing credentials, so called [[Blind Credential]] is very important.

	Identifying individual people unambiguously is more controversial, a two-edged sword. Some activists like [http://amnesty.org Amnesty] and [http://greenpeace.org Greenpeace] do it often, for what they consider clear moral purposes. Other projects like [http://wikipedia.org Wikipedia] have less clear purposes and thus less excuse for "outing" or "shaming". This is not an easy issue for consumerium:		Identifying individual people unambiguously is more controversial, a two-edged sword. Some activists like [http://amnesty.org Amnesty] and [http://greenpeace.org Greenpeace] do it often, for what they consider clear moral purposes. Other projects like [http://wikipedia.org Wikipedia] have less clear purposes and thus less excuse for "outing" or "shaming". This is not an easy issue for consumerium:

Jukeboksi: I still oppose m:person_DTD and can say with confidence that even more mellow stuff has been shot down by Wikitech Gurus

2003-04-15T23:21:43Z

I still oppose m:person_DTD and can say with confidence that even more mellow stuff has been shot down by Wikitech Gurus

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:21, 15 April 2003
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	*[[m:spacetime_DTD]] (This is necessary for automatic relation mapping and borders of )		*[[m:spacetime_DTD]] (This is necessary for automatic relation mapping and borders of )
	Spacetime is critical to match suppliers and buyers of non-offensive goods in space and time, without which, buyers may have no choice but to buy offensive goods. It is critical also to identifying borders of natural ecoregions as they exist or as they are degraded over time. This is useful to graphically show the impacts e.g. of [[w:deforestation]].		Spacetime is critical to match suppliers and buyers of non-offensive goods in space and time, without which, buyers may have no choice but to buy offensive goods. It is critical also to identifying borders of natural ecoregions as they exist or as they are degraded over time. This is useful to graphically show the impacts e.g. of [[w:deforestation]].


	*[[m:ecoregion_DTD]] (This is a great idea and has to be implemented in [[Cium]])		*[[m:ecoregion_DTD]] (This is a great idea and has to be implemented in [[Cium]])
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	===persons ===		===persons ===
	*[[m:person_DTD]] ~~(controversial to~~ [[w:wikipedians]], ~~less so for~~ [http://disinfopedia.org disinfopedians] and some [[NGO]]s - overkill for ~~cium?~~)		*[[m:person_DTD]]

			: This type of control-freakish markup is shunned by many [[w:wikipedians\|wikipedians]] for understandable reasons, where as [http://disinfopedia.org disinfopedians] and some [[w:NGO\|NGO]]s like it.

			: As for what I think is that this is way overkill for our purposes. [[Gender]], [[Birthyear]], [[Nationality]], [[Employer]], [[Profession]] and perhaps some contact info should be quite adequate for [[employee]]s, [[campaigner]]s and [[commentator]]s. [[w:Anonymous Coward\|Anonymous Coward]]s can of course be dismissed as nobodys more easily then someone who has [[w:GnuPG\|GnuPG]] or commercially signed identities. [[Consumer]]s naturally can reveal as little or much about themselves as they wish. --[[User:Juxo\|Juxo]] 23:21 Apr 15, 2003 (EEST)

	Identifying individual people unambiguously is more controversial, a two-edged sword. Some activists like [http://amnesty.org Amnesty] and [http://greenpeace.org Greenpeace] do it often, for what they consider clear moral purposes. Other projects like [http://wikipedia.org Wikipedia] have less clear purposes and thus less excuse for "outing" or "shaming". This is not an easy issue for consumerium:		Identifying individual people unambiguously is more controversial, a two-edged sword. Some activists like [http://amnesty.org Amnesty] and [http://greenpeace.org Greenpeace] do it often, for what they consider clear moral purposes. Other projects like [http://wikipedia.org Wikipedia] have less clear purposes and thus less excuse for "outing" or "shaming". This is not an easy issue for consumerium:

Jukeboksi: formatting

2003-04-15T23:02:11Z

formatting

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:02, 15 April 2003
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	==Long-term important, please review==		==Long-term important, please review==

	===places ===		===places and times===
	*[[m:spacetime_DTD]] (This is necessary for automatic relation mapping and borders of )		*[[m:spacetime_DTD]] (This is necessary for automatic relation mapping and borders of )
	Spacetime is critical to match suppliers and buyers of non-offensive goods in space and time, without which, buyers may have no choice but to buy offensive goods. It is critical also to identifying borders of natural ecoregions as they exist or as they are degraded over time. This is useful to graphically show the impacts e.g. of [[deforestation]].		Spacetime is critical to match suppliers and buyers of non-offensive goods in space and time, without which, buyers may have no choice but to buy offensive goods. It is critical also to identifying borders of natural ecoregions as they exist or as they are degraded over time. This is useful to graphically show the impacts e.g. of [[w:deforestation]].


	*[[m:ecoregion_DTD]] (This is a great idea and has to be implemented in [[Cium]])		*[[m:ecoregion_DTD]] (This is a great idea and has to be implemented in [[Cium]])

	Ecoregion is critical since an export of exactly the same consumer good from one ecological region may be harmless or even constructive, while an export of the same good from another may be devastating, e.g. exporting water from arid regions versus those with icebergs, e.g. exporting pulp wood from tropical forests versus managed temperate tree farms, e.g. cattle living on former deforested rainforest land versus natural pasture.		Ecoregion is critical since an export of exactly the same consumer good from one ecological region may be harmless or even constructive, while an export of the same good from another may be devastating, e.g. exporting water from arid regions versus those with icebergs, e.g. exporting pulp wood from tropical forests versus managed temperate tree farms, e.g. cattle living on former deforested rainforest land versus natural pasture.

Jukeboksi at 21:42, 15 April 2003

2003-04-15T21:42:22Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:42, 15 April 2003
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	==Functioning==		==Functioning==
	*http://www.consumerium.org/XML/DTD/common_datatypes.dtd - common datatypes used by other DTDs by importing reference to this DTD		*http://www.consumerium.org/XML/DTD/common_datatypes.dtd - common datatypes used by other DTDs by importing reference to this DTD (Seems I may have confused latitude and longtitude, I'll look into it)
	*http://www.consumerium.org/XML/DTD/company.dtd - For describing companies		*http://www.consumerium.org/XML/DTD/company.dtd - For describing companies
	*http://www.consumerium.org/XML/DTD/country.dtd - For describing countries		*http://www.consumerium.org/XML/DTD/country.dtd - For describing countries

Jukeboksi: Formatting

2003-04-15T21:17:59Z

Formatting

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:17, 15 April 2003
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	*http://www.consumerium.org/XML/DTD/company.dtd - For describing companies		*http://www.consumerium.org/XML/DTD/company.dtd - For describing companies
	*http://www.consumerium.org/XML/DTD/country.dtd - For describing countries		*http://www.consumerium.org/XML/DTD/country.dtd - For describing countries
			----
	~~==Not functioning, under construction==~~
	*http://www.consumerium.org/XML/DTD/common_data_structures.dtd - ~~this is maybe not functioning, I'm a newbie to XML~~

	*[[XML/DTD/product_group.dtd]] I've done some work on product_group.dtd, but it's not working. I'm thinking that product_group-~~nodes could be arranged to multiple trees ([[production]] tree, [[product substitution]] tree) and directed networks to reflect the different roles of a product_group in different contexts.~~

	==Long-term important, please review==		==Long-term important, please review==

	===places ===		===places ===
	*[[m:spacetime_DTD]] (This is necessary for automatic relation mapping and borders of )		*[[m:spacetime_DTD]] (This is necessary for automatic relation mapping and borders of )
	*[[m:ecoregion_DTD]] (This is a great idea and has to be implemented ~~for~~ [[Cium]] - and even [http://act.greenpeace.org/996755792/1007012854/1007026932/1007232560/1007335070/1007763497/1007763704/1007766148/1007777103/1007853930/1007859532/1008468120/1008930052/1008933882/1010349645/1010351347/1015651781/1015703516/1015709328/index_html directly in DNS entries?])		Spacetime is critical to match suppliers and buyers of non-offensive goods in space and time, without which, buyers may have no choice but to buy offensive goods. It is critical also to identifying borders of natural ecoregions as they exist or as they are degraded over time. This is useful to graphically show the impacts e.g. of [[deforestation]].


			*[[m:ecoregion_DTD]] (This is a great idea and has to be implemented in [[Cium]])

	Ecoregion is critical since an export of exactly the same consumer good from one ecological region may be harmless or even constructive, while an export of the same good from another may be devastating, e.g. exporting water from arid regions versus those with icebergs, e.g. exporting pulp wood from tropical forests versus managed temperate tree farms, e.g. cattle living on former deforested rainforest land versus natural pasture.		Ecoregion is critical since an export of exactly the same consumer good from one ecological region may be harmless or even constructive, while an export of the same good from another may be devastating, e.g. exporting water from arid regions versus those with icebergs, e.g. exporting pulp wood from tropical forests versus managed temperate tree farms, e.g. cattle living on former deforested rainforest land versus natural pasture.

	Spacetime is critical to match suppliers and buyers of non-offensive goods in space and time, without which, buyers may have no choice but to buy offensive goods. It is critical also to identifying borders of natural ecoregions as they exist or as they are degraded over time. This is useful to graphically show the impacts e.g. of [[deforestation]].

	===persons ===		===persons ===
Line 39:		Line 35:

	Also XML tags may not be the only or best place to express some standards, e.g. [http://act.greenpeace.org/996755792/1007012854/1007026932/1007232560/1007335070/1007763497/1007763704/1007766148/1007777103/1007853930/1007859532/1008468120/1008930052/1008933882/1010349645/1010351347/1015651781/1015703516/1015709328/index_html ecoregion DNS entries] or the [http://wiktionary.org dictionary] also express name-spaces for public use, and may be more appropriate for nouns or verbs useful more generally than consumerium.		Also XML tags may not be the only or best place to express some standards, e.g. [http://act.greenpeace.org/996755792/1007012854/1007026932/1007232560/1007335070/1007763497/1007763704/1007766148/1007777103/1007853930/1007859532/1008468120/1008930052/1008933882/1010349645/1010351347/1015651781/1015703516/1015709328/index_html ecoregion DNS entries] or the [http://wiktionary.org dictionary] also express name-spaces for public use, and may be more appropriate for nouns or verbs useful more generally than consumerium.
			----

			==Not functioning, under construction==
			*http://www.consumerium.org/XML/DTD/common_data_structures.dtd - this is maybe not functioning, I'm a newbie to XML

			*[[XML/DTD/product_group.dtd]] I've done some work on product_group.dtd, but it's not working. I'm thinking that product_group-nodes could be arranged to multiple trees ([[production]] tree, [[product substitution]] tree) and directed networks to reflect the different roles of a product_group in different contexts.

Jukeboksi: removing named individuals. We are supposed to think about developing the concept and system, not targetting Company X and Person Y

2003-04-15T20:42:44Z

removing named individuals. We are supposed to think about developing the concept and system, not targetting Company X and Person Y

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:42, 15 April 2003
Line 30:		Line 30:
	Identifying individual people unambiguously is more controversial, a two-edged sword. Some activists like [http://amnesty.org Amnesty] and [http://greenpeace.org Greenpeace] do it often, for what they consider clear moral purposes. Other projects like [http://wikipedia.org Wikipedia] have less clear purposes and thus less excuse for "outing" or "shaming". This is not an easy issue for consumerium:		Identifying individual people unambiguously is more controversial, a two-edged sword. Some activists like [http://amnesty.org Amnesty] and [http://greenpeace.org Greenpeace] do it often, for what they consider clear moral purposes. Other projects like [http://wikipedia.org Wikipedia] have less clear purposes and thus less excuse for "outing" or "shaming". This is not an easy issue for consumerium:

	On the one hand certain individuals like [[~~w:Richard Cheney~~]] or [~~http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Gus_Kouwenhoven Gus Kouwenhoven~~] are engaged in a vast number of unpopular activities, and many would choose to have nothing to do with an enterprise that they profited from. Being sure that the activity is associated with them is impossible without some clear way of identifying individuals and their interests - there is danger that innocents will be targetted if identification is not clear. On the other hand, there is reason to fear "witchhunts" and "dossiers" on ordinary individuals, and automation of person-tracking and identification certainly makes this easier.		On the one hand certain individuals like [[person X]] and [[person Y]] are engaged in a vast number of unpopular activities, and many would choose to have nothing to do with an enterprise that they profited from. Being sure that the activity is associated with them is impossible without some clear way of identifying individuals and their interests - there is danger that innocents will be targetted if identification is not clear. On the other hand, there is reason to fear "witchhunts" and "dossiers" on ordinary individuals, and automation of person-tracking and identification certainly makes this easier.

	However, some means of standardizing references to persons seems to be underway in some projects, e.g. wikipedia, anyway. Consumerium may not be able to igore them. There are also reasons to identify "noble" individuals for merit or recognition, e.g. [http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=James_Gustave_Gus_Speth disinfopedia's naming of reliable sources e.g. James Speth]. This can be important to validate information to be used in buying decisions, e.g. [http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIPAESA as the 'authority' in TIPAESA structures].		However, some means of standardizing references to persons seems to be underway in some projects, e.g. wikipedia, anyway. Consumerium may not be able to igore them. There are also reasons to identify "noble" individuals for merit or recognition, e.g. [http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=James_Gustave_Gus_Speth disinfopedia's naming of reliable sources e.g. James Speth]. This can be important to validate information to be used in buying decisions, e.g. [http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIPAESA as the 'authority' in TIPAESA structures].

142.177.9.60: splitting out person issue with rewritten rationale, non-XML name space coordination

2003-04-15T19:16:31Z

splitting out person issue with rewritten rationale, non-XML name space coordination

@@ Line 16: / Line 16: @@
 ==Long-term important, please review==
-These three are necessary for non-obvious reasons.  Ecoregion is critical since an export of exactly the same consumer good from one ecological region may be harmless or even constructive, while an export of the same good from another may be devastating, e.g. exporting water from arid regions versus those with icebergs, e.g. exporting pulp wood from tropical forests versus managed temperate tree farms, e.g. cattle living on former deforested rainforest land versus natural pasture.
+===places ===
-Spacetime is critical to match suppliers and buyers of non-offensive goods in space and time, without which, buyers may have no choice but to buy offensive goods.
+Ecoregion is critical since an export of exactly the same consumer good from one ecological region may be harmless or even constructive, while an export of the same good from another may be devastating, e.g. exporting water from arid regions versus those with icebergs, e.g. exporting pulp wood from tropical forests versus managed temperate tree farms, e.g. cattle living on former deforested rainforest land versus natural pasture.
-Also, if these DTDs are not standard with large scale data sources like wikipedia and all other projects using the GNU GFDL, they will not be used to maximum extent, and the information available will be limited or flawed.  Thus early standardization of these tags is extremely important to consumerium.
+Spacetime is critical to match suppliers and buyers of non-offensive goods in space and time, without which, buyers may have no choice but to buy offensive goods.  It is critical also to identifying borders of natural ecoregions as they exist or as they are degraded over time.  This is useful to graphically show the impacts e.g. of [[deforestation]].