User:Jukeboksi/Chat Gallery/6.8.2005 with bumm13 - Revision history

Jukeboksi: Jukeboksi moved page User:Juboxi/Chat Gallery/6.8.2005 with bumm13 to User:Jukeboksi/Chat Gallery/6.8.2005 with bumm13: Automatically moved page while renaming the user "Juboxi" to "Jukeboksi"

2017-07-06T15:23:19Z

Jukeboksi moved page User:Juboxi/Chat Gallery/6.8.2005 with bumm13 to User:Jukeboksi/Chat Gallery/6.8.2005 with bumm13: Automatically moved page while renaming the user "Juboxi" to "Jukeboksi"

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:23, 6 July 2017
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Jukeboksi: Juboxi moved page User:Juxo/Chat Gallery/6.8.2005 with bumm13 to User:Juboxi/Chat Gallery/6.8.2005 with bumm13: Automatically moved page while renaming the user "Juxo" to "Juboxi"

2013-06-14T13:04:00Z

Juboxi moved page User:Juxo/Chat Gallery/6.8.2005 with bumm13 to User:Juboxi/Chat Gallery/6.8.2005 with bumm13: Automatically moved page while renaming the user "Juxo" to "Juboxi"

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:04, 14 June 2013
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Jukeboksi: added color codes for easier reading (a slacker implementation, the tags don't close, I should'a done it properly with SED or GAWK, but I'm lazy and don't have any book here that refreshes me on how)

2005-08-06T15:54:11Z

added color codes for easier reading (a slacker implementation, the tags don't close, I should'a done it properly with SED or GAWK, but I'm lazy and don't have any book here that refreshes me on how)

Jukeboksi: TiddlyWiki, Sea of Wiki and whine about Wiktionary

2005-08-06T15:49:02Z

TiddlyWiki, Sea of Wiki and whine about Wiktionary

New page

[17:40] juxo> hey.. check out this cool (and little weird) wiki implementation. It's fully client side and uses Javascript for all the logic. It's very nice for a personal wikiwiki. There's only one HTML file, which you can put on a USB-memory and then have instant personal wiki anywhere you go
 [17:40] bumm13> ok
 [17:41] juxo> as long as you have a web client that does javascript
 [17:41] juxo> http://www.tiddlywiki.com/
 [17:41] juxo> it doesn't have "pages" or "articles", it has tiddlers (that are stored as <nowiki><div></nowiki>s in the single HTML file)
 [17:42] bumm13> hmm, interesting
 [17:42] juxo> note that it opens any "tiddlers" you click on "in-line"
 [17:42] juxo> a very cool GUI
 [17:43] bumm13> hmm
 [17:43] juxo> I suppose it doesn't scale very well
 [17:44] juxo> I'd definatelly use it if there were a conversion script to MediaWiki format
 [17:44] juxo> on to other things..
 [17:45] juxo> I've been thinking of this "sea of wiki" (or transwiki) approach to sharing pages among many wikis and minimizing the redundant manual work involved in such schemes
 [17:46] bumm13> it's an interesting concept
 [17:46] juxo> basically it works so that each article has a "master"-wiki
 [17:46] juxo> if someone want's to edit an article that is "on loan" from some other wiki they will be guided there to edit it
 [17:47] bumm13> hmm
 [17:47] juxo> and any changes to the master wiki will automatically be imported to all the wikis using that page in their wiki after a delay
 [17:47] juxo> say 30 minutes for a WP article
 [17:48] juxo> if the edit sticks for 30 minutes it's not vandalism
 [17:48] juxo> and if there is a revert within the timeframe, then both
 [17:48] juxo> 1) the edit
 [17:48] juxo> 2) the revert
 [17:48] juxo> could be "wiped out" from history on the client wikis
 [17:49] juxo> if that is desireable
 [17:49] juxo> now this way WP could be rivalled or complemented (how ever you wanna see it) by a multitude of "specialist" wikis
 [17:50] bumm13> yeah
 [17:50] juxo> say if consumerium is the specialist in [[products]]
 [17:50] juxo> and wikicompany is a specialist on [[historical developments of corporations]]
 [17:51] juxo> and wikipedia is a specialist in [[encyclopedic information]]
 [17:52] juxo> then each wiki could get their "filling" articles from other wikis dynamically and each wiki focus on what is their speciality and do good articles on those issues that are the core or essence of some wikis declaration of purpose to benefit all wikis
 [17:53] juxo> naturally there should be the possibility that there can be a split in what is the master-wiki for some article
 [17:54] juxo> ie. some wikis would keep WP as article-master while some sites go for the Wikinfo version
 [17:56] juxo> every time I try to tell the MediaWiki people that there really is need for replicating articles from a chosen master-wiki they always respond with something like "Why don't you just redirect to WP?" which is annoying
 [17:56] bumm13> yeah :(
 [17:58] juxo> maybe WP itself has no need to use any other wiki as a master wiki for any article because WP is so complete and the information in there is usually meticulously complete but in operating a specialism-wiki (as opposed to WP being the generalism-wiki) this kind of functionality would be most welcome
 [17:58] bumm13> sure
 [17:58] juxo> There is the puny SpecialImport.php that no-one is actually developing
 [17:59] juxo> and the whole export-import scheme (and application) of MW is really not developed at all
 [17:59] juxo> One would instinctively expect that the Special:Import would automatically fetch desired pages from the other wikis, but no..
 [17:59] juxo> you have to download via XML-export
 [18:00] juxo> and then you have to upload to the Import-facility
 [18:00] juxo> so there is no glue between the export and import "functionalities"
 [18:00] bumm13> interesting
 [18:01] juxo> I think it comes down to WP being Monolithic™ so they don't care about Fragmentic™ wikis at all
 [18:01] bumm13> good possibility
 [18:02] juxo> but the MW guys are also disregarding Wikimedia projects
 [18:03] juxo> I think there isn't even one function in the codebase that is made to support Wiktionar(y)ies development
 [18:04] juxo> I used to do english->finnish translations as therapy but then I got frustrated that after the wiktionaries were split up there was no brainstorming going on aiming to make a "TransWiktionary" ie. glue the disjoint wiktionries together
 [18:04] bumm13> yeah, I can imagine
 [18:08] juxo> but I really am in no position to whine about these if I don't get my stuff together and design a possible implementation framework (I do have some 4 yrs of CS studies, but then I dropped out) and present that to the MediaWiki-wizards
 [18:08] juxo> erm..
 [18:09] juxo> a workable design I mean by "implementation framework"
 [18:11] juxo> I don't even know what is an "implementation framework", but it's just the sort of compu-speak that I've been listening to for years so I use it to describe something that is not quite pseudo-code, but that gives a sound plan (that a sw professional can follow) on how to implement features specified in an introduction to the problem(s) to be solved or new functionality to implement

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:54, 6 August 2005
Line 1:		Line 1:
	<br /> [17:40] juxo> hey.. check out this cool (and little weird) wiki implementation. It's fully client side and uses Javascript for all the logic. It's very nice for a personal wikiwiki. There's only one HTML file, which you can put on a USB-memory and then have instant personal wiki anywhere you go		<br /> [17:40] <font color="black">juxo> hey.. check out this cool (and little weird) wiki implementation. It's fully client side and uses Javascript for all the logic. It's very nice for a personal wikiwiki. There's only one HTML file, which you can put on a USB-memory and then have instant personal wiki anywhere you go
	<br /> [17:40] bumm13> ok		<br /> [17:40] <font color="green">bumm13> ok
	<br /> [17:41] juxo> as long as you have a web client that does javascript		<br /> [17:41] <font color="black">juxo> as long as you have a web client that does javascript
	<br /> [17:41] juxo> http://www.tiddlywiki.com/		<br /> [17:41] <font color="black">juxo> http://www.tiddlywiki.com/
	<br /> [17:41] juxo> it doesn't have "pages" or "articles", it has tiddlers (that are stored as <nowiki><div></nowiki>s in the single HTML file)		<br /> [17:41] <font color="black">juxo> it doesn't have "pages" or "articles", it has tiddlers (that are stored as <nowiki><div></nowiki>s in the single HTML file)
	<br /> [17:42] bumm13> hmm, interesting		<br /> [17:42] <font color="green">bumm13> hmm, interesting
	<br /> [17:42] juxo> note that it opens any "tiddlers" you click on "in-line"		<br /> [17:42] <font color="black">juxo> note that it opens any "tiddlers" you click on "in-line"
	<br /> [17:42] juxo> a very cool GUI		<br /> [17:42] <font color="black">juxo> a very cool GUI
	<br /> [17:43] bumm13> hmm		<br /> [17:43] <font color="green">bumm13> hmm
	<br /> [17:43] juxo> I suppose it doesn't scale very well		<br /> [17:43] <font color="black">juxo> I suppose it doesn't scale very well
	<br /> [17:44] juxo> I'd definatelly use it if there were a conversion script to MediaWiki format		<br /> [17:44] <font color="black">juxo> I'd definatelly use it if there were a conversion script to MediaWiki format
	<br /> [17:44] juxo> on to other things..		<br /> [17:44] <font color="black">juxo> on to other things..
	<br /> [17:45] juxo> I've been thinking of this "sea of wiki" (or transwiki) approach to sharing pages among many wikis and minimizing the redundant manual work involved in such schemes		<br /> [17:45] <font color="black">juxo> I've been thinking of this "sea of wiki" (or transwiki) approach to sharing pages among many wikis and minimizing the redundant manual work involved in such schemes
	<br /> [17:46] bumm13> it's an interesting concept		<br /> [17:46] <font color="green">bumm13> it's an interesting concept
	<br /> [17:46] juxo> basically it works so that each article has a "master"-wiki		<br /> [17:46] <font color="black">juxo> basically it works so that each article has a "master"-wiki
	<br /> [17:46] juxo> if someone want's to edit an article that is "on loan" from some other wiki they will be guided there to edit it		<br /> [17:46] <font color="black">juxo> if someone want's to edit an article that is "on loan" from some other wiki they will be guided there to edit it
	<br /> [17:47] bumm13> hmm		<br /> [17:47] <font color="green">bumm13> hmm
	<br /> [17:47] juxo> and any changes to the master wiki will automatically be imported to all the wikis using that page in their wiki after a delay		<br /> [17:47] <font color="black">juxo> and any changes to the master wiki will automatically be imported to all the wikis using that page in their wiki after a delay
	<br /> [17:47] juxo> say 30 minutes for a WP article		<br /> [17:47] <font color="black">juxo> say 30 minutes for a WP article
	<br /> [17:48] juxo> if the edit sticks for 30 minutes it's not vandalism		<br /> [17:48] <font color="black">juxo> if the edit sticks for 30 minutes it's not vandalism
	<br /> [17:48] juxo> and if there is a revert within the timeframe, then both		<br /> [17:48] <font color="black">juxo> and if there is a revert within the timeframe, then both
	<br /> [17:48] juxo> 1) the edit		<br /> [17:48] <font color="black">juxo> 1) the edit
	<br /> [17:48] juxo> 2) the revert		<br /> [17:48] <font color="black">juxo> 2) the revert
	<br /> [17:48] juxo> could be "wiped out" from history on the client wikis		<br /> [17:48] <font color="black">juxo> could be "wiped out" from history on the client wikis
	<br /> [17:49] juxo> if that is desireable		<br /> [17:49] <font color="black">juxo> if that is desireable
	<br /> [17:49] juxo> now this way WP could be rivalled or complemented (how ever you wanna see it) by a multitude of "specialist" wikis		<br /> [17:49] <font color="black">juxo> now this way WP could be rivalled or complemented (how ever you wanna see it) by a multitude of "specialist" wikis
	<br /> [17:50] bumm13> yeah		<br /> [17:50] <font color="green">bumm13> yeah
	<br /> [17:50] juxo> say if consumerium is the specialist in [[products]]		<br /> [17:50] <font color="black">juxo> say if consumerium is the specialist in [[products]]
	<br /> [17:50] juxo> and wikicompany is a specialist on [[historical developments of corporations]]		<br /> [17:50] <font color="black">juxo> and wikicompany is a specialist on [[historical developments of corporations]]
	<br /> [17:51] juxo> and wikipedia is a specialist in [[encyclopedic information]]		<br /> [17:51] <font color="black">juxo> and wikipedia is a specialist in [[encyclopedic information]]
	<br /> [17:52] juxo> then each wiki could get their "filling" articles from other wikis dynamically and each wiki focus on what is their speciality and do good articles on those issues that are the core or essence of some wikis declaration of purpose to benefit all wikis		<br /> [17:52] <font color="black">juxo> then each wiki could get their "filling" articles from other wikis dynamically and each wiki focus on what is their speciality and do good articles on those issues that are the core or essence of some wikis declaration of purpose to benefit all wikis
	<br /> [17:53] juxo> naturally there should be the possibility that there can be a split in what is the master-wiki for some article		<br /> [17:53] <font color="black">juxo> naturally there should be the possibility that there can be a split in what is the master-wiki for some article
	<br /> [17:54] juxo> ie. some wikis would keep WP as article-master while some sites go for the Wikinfo version		<br /> [17:54] <font color="black">juxo> ie. some wikis would keep WP as article-master while some sites go for the Wikinfo version
	<br /> [17:56] juxo> every time I try to tell the MediaWiki people that there really is need for replicating articles from a chosen master-wiki they always respond with something like "Why don't you just redirect to WP?" which is annoying		<br /> [17:56] <font color="black">juxo> every time I try to tell the MediaWiki people that there really is need for replicating articles from a chosen master-wiki they always respond with something like "Why don't you just redirect to WP?" which is annoying
	<br /> [17:56] bumm13> yeah :(		<br /> [17:56] <font color="green">bumm13> yeah :(
	<br /> [17:58] juxo> maybe WP itself has no need to use any other wiki as a master wiki for any article because WP is so complete and the information in there is usually meticulously complete but in operating a specialism-wiki (as opposed to WP being the generalism-wiki) this kind of functionality would be most welcome		<br /> [17:58] <font color="black">juxo> maybe WP itself has no need to use any other wiki as a master wiki for any article because WP is so complete and the information in there is usually meticulously complete but in operating a specialism-wiki (as opposed to WP being the generalism-wiki) this kind of functionality would be most welcome
	<br /> [17:58] bumm13> sure		<br /> [17:58] <font color="green">bumm13> sure
	<br /> [17:58] juxo> There is the puny SpecialImport.php that no-one is actually developing		<br /> [17:58] <font color="black">juxo> There is the puny SpecialImport.php that no-one is actually developing
	<br /> [17:59] juxo> and the whole export-import scheme (and application) of MW is really not developed at all		<br /> [17:59] <font color="black">juxo> and the whole export-import scheme (and application) of MW is really not developed at all
	<br /> [17:59] juxo> One would instinctively expect that the Special:Import would automatically fetch desired pages from the other wikis, but no..		<br /> [17:59] <font color="black">juxo> One would instinctively expect that the Special:Import would automatically fetch desired pages from the other wikis, but no..
	<br /> [17:59] juxo> you have to download via XML-export		<br /> [17:59] <font color="black">juxo> you have to download via XML-export
	<br /> [18:00] juxo> and then you have to upload to the Import-facility		<br /> [18:00] <font color="black">juxo> and then you have to upload to the Import-facility
	<br /> [18:00] juxo> so there is no glue between the export and import "functionalities"		<br /> [18:00] <font color="black">juxo> so there is no glue between the export and import "functionalities"
	<br /> [18:00] bumm13> interesting		<br /> [18:00] <font color="green">bumm13> interesting
	<br /> [18:01] juxo> I think it comes down to WP being Monolithic™ so they don't care about Fragmentic™ wikis at all		<br /> [18:01] <font color="black">juxo> I think it comes down to WP being Monolithic™ so they don't care about Fragmentic™ wikis at all
	<br /> [18:01] bumm13> good possibility		<br /> [18:01] <font color="green">bumm13> good possibility
	<br /> [18:02] juxo> but the MW guys are also disregarding Wikimedia projects		<br /> [18:02] <font color="black">juxo> but the MW guys are also disregarding Wikimedia projects
	<br /> [18:03] juxo> I think there isn't even one function in the codebase that is made to support Wiktionar(y)ies development		<br /> [18:03] <font color="black">juxo> I think there isn't even one function in the codebase that is made to support Wiktionar(y)ies development
	<br /> [18:04] juxo> I used to do english->finnish translations as therapy but then I got frustrated that after the wiktionaries were split up there was no brainstorming going on aiming to make a "TransWiktionary" ie. glue the disjoint wiktionries together		<br /> [18:04] <font color="black">juxo> I used to do english->finnish translations as therapy but then I got frustrated that after the wiktionaries were split up there was no brainstorming going on aiming to make a "TransWiktionary" ie. glue the disjoint wiktionries together
	<br /> [18:04] bumm13> yeah, I can imagine		<br /> [18:04] <font color="green">bumm13> yeah, I can imagine
	<br /> [18:08] juxo> but I really am in no position to whine about these if I don't get my stuff together and design a possible implementation framework (I do have some 4 yrs of CS studies, but then I dropped out) and present that to the MediaWiki-wizards		<br /> [18:08] <font color="black">juxo> but I really am in no position to whine about these if I don't get my stuff together and design a possible implementation framework (I do have some 4 yrs of CS studies, but then I dropped out) and present that to the MediaWiki-wizards
	<br /> [18:08] juxo> erm..		<br /> [18:08] <font color="black">juxo> erm..
	<br /> [18:09] juxo> a workable design I mean by "implementation framework"		<br /> [18:09] <font color="black">juxo> a workable design I mean by "implementation framework"
	<br /> [18:11] juxo> I don't even know what is an "implementation framework", but it's just the sort of compu-speak that I've been listening to for years so I use it to describe something that is not quite pseudo-code, but that gives a sound plan (that a sw professional can follow) on how to implement features specified in an introduction to the problem(s) to be solved or new functionality to implement		<br /> [18:11] <font color="black">juxo> I don't even know what is an "implementation framework", but it's just the sort of compu-speak that I've been listening to for years so I use it to describe something that is not quite pseudo-code, but that gives a sound plan (that a sw professional can follow) on how to implement features specified in an introduction to the problem(s) to be solved or new functionality to implement