Troll - Revision history

91.223.106.201: fixed broken links

2020-03-03T00:55:34Z

fixed broken links

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:55, 3 March 2020
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	"I find that the term "troll" means pretty		"I find that the term "troll" means pretty
	much nothing, or it just means "somebody doing something I don't like." - [~~http~~://~~mail~~.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2004-May/~~012437~~.html Theresa Robinson]		much nothing, or it just means "somebody doing something I don't like." - [https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2004-May/012460.html Theresa Robinson]

	"...a term of abuse that is levelled both at genuinely problematic users and		"...a term of abuse that is levelled both at genuinely problematic users and
	users with contentious but potentially legitimate views." - [~~http~~://~~mail~~.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2004-May/~~012438~~.html Mark Richards]		users with contentious but potentially legitimate views." - [https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2004-May/012461.html Mark Richards]

	=== troll vs. sysop ===		=== troll vs. sysop ===

Jukeboksi: rm non-sense

2004-07-14T10:30:36Z

rm non-sense

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:30, 14 July 2004
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	The word '''troll''' means many things, all important to the culture of [[trolling]] ~~(of which [[Consumerium]] is necessarily a part, since it always will be perceived as "[[trolling]] perfect corporations with bad untrue things" until~~ of ~~course the corporation must admit that all the "trolling" is true - see~~ [[~~Wikimedia~~]] ~~and~~ [[~~Bomis~~]] ~~for examples of trolling that is totally true)~~.		The word '''troll''' means many things, all important to the culture of [[trolling]] and ideology of [[trollism]] celebrated by [[trolls]].

	=== definitions of the noun "troll" ===		=== definitions of the noun "troll" ===

142.177.92.12 at 17:39, 22 June 2004

2004-06-22T17:39:28Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:39, 22 June 2004
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	=== generic troll ===		=== generic troll ===

	Combining all the various insights above, clearly, a troll is a supernatural creature with a body of any size, closely associated with nature, who likely eats fish, moves around a lot and often in circles in a regular range, who sings a great deal, often in praise and celebration (of each other or Earth herself), but always loudly and without inhibition, in complex cycles in close cooperation with other such creatures, in rolling voices, with all eventually signing different parts of the song at the same time, probably driving everyone who doesn't want to listen to them completely nuts. This is the generic troll.		Combining all the various insights above, clearly, a troll is a supernatural creature with a body of any size, closely associated with nature, who likely eats fish, moves around a lot and often in circles in a regular range, who sings a great deal, often in praise and celebration (of each other or Earth herself), but always loudly and without inhibition, in complex cycles in close cooperation with other such creatures, in rolling voices, with all eventually signing different parts of the song at the same time, probably driving everyone who doesn't want to listen to them completely nuts. This is the generic troll - see [[trolls]] for more information on their culture and practices.

	=== Internet ~~trolls~~ ===		The rest of this article attempts to interpret their relation to [[Consumerium]], [[large public wiki]]s, and the [[Internet]]in general.

			=== the Internet troll ===

	On the Internet, "today, the word troll are both verb and noun, and are applied loosely to any outsider. If you don't like someone's manners, he is a troll. If you don't like a gadfly, he is a troll. If you don't like a philosopher, he is a		On the Internet, "today, the word troll are both verb and noun, and are applied loosely to any outsider. If you don't like someone's manners, he is a troll. If you don't like a gadfly, he is a troll. If you don't like a philosopher, he is a
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	users with contentious but potentially legitimate views." - [http://mail.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2004-May/012438.html Mark Richards]		users with contentious but potentially legitimate views." - [http://mail.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2004-May/012438.html Mark Richards]

	=== ~~trolls~~ vs. ~~sysops~~ ===		=== troll vs. sysop ===

	Obviously, under these definitions, we are all trolls from time to time, that is, we are all likely to be in some [[dispute]] or [[conflict between users]] and then if there is some [[sysop power structure]], we can be labelled "troll" and so marginalized. This is a fairly typical process, not different from authorship:		Obviously, under these definitions, we are all trolls from time to time, that is, we are all likely to be in some [[dispute]] or [[conflict between users]] and then if there is some [[sysop power structure]], we can be labelled "troll" and so marginalized. This is a fairly typical process, not different from authorship:

142.177.92.12: generic troll definition combining all insights from all definitions

2004-06-22T17:37:29Z

generic troll definition combining all insights from all definitions

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:37, 22 June 2004
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	=== definitions of the verb "to troll" ===		=== definitions of the verb "to troll" ===

			*verb: angle with a hook and line drawn through the water
	*verb: circulate, move around, e.g. "he [[trolled]] all the [[large public wiki]]s"		*verb: circulate, move around, e.g. "he [[trolled]] all the [[large public wiki]]s"
	*verb: speak or recite rapidly or in a rolling voice		*verb: speak or recite rapidly or in a rolling voice
	*verb: praise or celebrate in song (Example: "All tongues shall troll you")		*verb: praise or celebrate in song (Example: "All tongues shall troll you")
	*verb: sing loudly and without inhibition, especially the [[USENET troll song]]		*verb: sing loudly and without inhibition, especially the [[USENET troll song]]
	*verb: angle with a hook and line drawn through the water
	*verb: sing the parts of (a round) in succession, especially [[heroic songs about trolls]]		*verb: sing the parts of (a round) in succession, especially [[heroic songs about trolls]]
	*verb: cause to move round and round (Example: "The child trolled her hoop", "the [[Lowest Troll]] trolled the [[sysop vandalism\|sysop-vandal]] [[fork off\|off]] to other [[large public wiki]]s, but it always came back")		*verb: cause to move round and round (Example: "The child trolled her hoop", "the [[Lowest Troll]] trolled the [[sysop vandalism\|sysop-vandal]] [[fork off\|off]] to other [[large public wiki]]s, but it always came back")

			=== generic troll ===

			Combining all the various insights above, clearly, a troll is a supernatural creature with a body of any size, closely associated with nature, who likely eats fish, moves around a lot and often in circles in a regular range, who sings a great deal, often in praise and celebration (of each other or Earth herself), but always loudly and without inhibition, in complex cycles in close cooperation with other such creatures, in rolling voices, with all eventually signing different parts of the song at the same time, probably driving everyone who doesn't want to listen to them completely nuts. This is the generic troll.

	=== Internet trolls ===		=== Internet trolls ===

142.177.92.12 at 17:29, 22 June 2004

2004-06-22T17:29:43Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:29, 22 June 2004
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	"~~Today~~, the word troll are both verb and noun, and are applied loosely to any outsider.		The word '''troll''' means many things, all important to the culture of [[trolling]] (of which [[Consumerium]] is necessarily a part, since it always will be perceived as "[[trolling]] perfect corporations with bad untrue things" until of course the corporation must admit that all the "trolling" is true - see [[Wikimedia]] and [[Bomis]] for examples of trolling that is totally true).
	If you don't like someone's manners, he is a troll. If you don't like
	a gadfly, he is a troll. If you don't like a philosopher, he is a		=== definitions of the noun "troll" ===

			*noun: angling by drawing a baited line through the water
			*noun: a fisherman's lure that is used in trolling (Example: "He used a spinner as his troll")
			*noun: a partsong in which voices follow each other; one voice starts and others join in one after another until all are singing different parts of the song at the same time
			*noun: (Scandanavian folklore) a supernatural creature (either a dwarf or a giant) that is supposed to live in caves or in the mountains or under the [[world tree]]

			=== definitions of the verb "to troll" ===

			*verb: circulate, move around, e.g. "he [[trolled]] all the [[large public wiki]]s"
			*verb: speak or recite rapidly or in a rolling voice
			*verb: praise or celebrate in song (Example: "All tongues shall troll you")
			*verb: sing loudly and without inhibition, especially the [[USENET troll song]]
			*verb: angle with a hook and line drawn through the water
			*verb: sing the parts of (a round) in succession, especially [[heroic songs about trolls]]
			*verb: cause to move round and round (Example: "The child trolled her hoop", "the [[Lowest Troll]] trolled the [[sysop vandalism\|sysop-vandal]] [[fork off\|off]] to other [[large public wiki]]s, but it always came back")

			=== Internet trolls ===

			On the Internet, "today, the word troll are both verb and noun, and are applied loosely to any outsider. If you don't like someone's manners, he is a troll. If you don't like a gadfly, he is a troll. If you don't like a philosopher, he is a
	troll. If you don't like a inquirer, he is a troll. If you don't like		troll. If you don't like a inquirer, he is a troll. If you don't like
	a humorist, he is a troll. If you don't like a teacher, he is a troll.		a humorist, he is a troll. If you don't like a teacher, he is a troll.
	If you don't like witches, they are, well, witches and must be		If you don't like witches, they are, well, witches and must be
	witch-hunted." ''(see [[ad hominem]] and [[witchhunt]])''. "Thusly, from weirdo to witches, from teachers to philosophers, from gadfly to firebrand, from loner to gay, they are		witch-hunted." ''(see [[ad hominem]] and [[witchhunt]])''. "Thusly, from weirdo to witches, from teachers to philosophers, from gadfly to firebrand, from loner to gay, they are all trolls online at your call. Quick spun the guild of killfilers and troll-criers. Anyone who has contrariwise things to say or the manner of saying it is a troll." - [http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/troll_ignorance.html "troll ignorance", Xah Lee]
	all trolls online at your call. Quick spun the guild of killfilers and
	troll-criers. Anyone who has contrariwise things to say or the manner
	of saying it is a troll." - [http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/troll_ignorance.html "troll ignorance", Xah Lee]

	"I find that the term "troll" means pretty		"I find that the term "troll" means pretty
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	"...a term of abuse that is levelled both at genuinely problematic users and		"...a term of abuse that is levelled both at genuinely problematic users and
	users with contentious but potentially legitimate views." - [http://mail.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2004-May/012438.html Mark Richards]		users with contentious but potentially legitimate views." - [http://mail.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2004-May/012438.html Mark Richards]

			=== trolls vs. sysops ===

	Obviously, under these definitions, we are all trolls from time to time, that is, we are all likely to be in some [[dispute]] or [[conflict between users]] and then if there is some [[sysop power structure]], we can be labelled "troll" and so marginalized. This is a fairly typical process, not different from authorship:		Obviously, under these definitions, we are all trolls from time to time, that is, we are all likely to be in some [[dispute]] or [[conflict between users]] and then if there is some [[sysop power structure]], we can be labelled "troll" and so marginalized. This is a fairly typical process, not different from authorship:

	"The author does not precede the works; he is a certain functional principle by which, in our culture, one [[limits, excludes, chooses and impedes]] the [[free circulation of fiction]]." - [[Michel Foucault]]		"The author does not precede the works; he is a certain functional principle by which, in our culture, one [[limits, excludes, chooses and impedes]] the [[free circulation of fiction]]." - [[Michel Foucault]]

			The sysops stand for the old guard's [[systemic bias]] and prejudices and will cooperate always to exclude the [[New Troll point of view]]. [[Trolls]] on the other hand will always seek to invite the [[New Troll]] in, and assist them in their dealings with the [[Lowest Troll]], to ensure no [[groupthink]] can become standardized on the wiki. To side with sysops is to side with stagnation, while, to trolls, each new troll is itself a revolution incarnate.

			=== "troll-friendly" ===

	One view of "real [[trolls]]" is that they are those who wilfully agree with Foucault and so reject both authorship and the association of authorship with fiction. To trolls, there is no such thing as an individual "troll", so the use of the term in the singular is confined to sysops. See [[w:Internet troll\|Internet troll (Wikipedia)]] for examples of their anti-troll [[propaganda]] and [[m:troll\|troll (Meta-Wikipedia)]] for a troll view, in which sysops are defined as simply "less mature individual troll personalities who have not yet found a group they can comfortably be trolls in". A hierarchy with the sysop (those who require technological power over others to feel they can belong) at the entry point, and the troll as the [[culminative outcome]], is formed. If this is desirable, then, troll-friendly [[wiki]]s are the best:		One view of "real [[trolls]]" is that they are those who wilfully agree with Foucault and so reject both authorship and the association of authorship with fiction. To trolls, there is no such thing as an individual "troll", so the use of the term in the singular is confined to sysops. See [[w:Internet troll\|Internet troll (Wikipedia)]] for examples of their anti-troll [[propaganda]] and [[m:troll\|troll (Meta-Wikipedia)]] for a troll view, in which sysops are defined as simply "less mature individual troll personalities who have not yet found a group they can comfortably be trolls in". A hierarchy with the sysop (those who require technological power over others to feel they can belong) at the entry point, and the troll as the [[culminative outcome]], is formed. If this is desirable, then, troll-friendly [[wiki]]s are the best:

142.177.92.38 at 02:53, 29 May 2004

2004-05-29T02:53:36Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:53, 29 May 2004
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	"I find that the term "troll" means pretty		"I find that the term "troll" means pretty
	much nothing, or it just means "somebody doing something I don't like." - [http://mail.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2004-May/012437.html Theresa Robinson]		much nothing, or it just means "somebody doing something I don't like." - [http://mail.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2004-May/012437.html Theresa Robinson]

			"...a term of abuse that is levelled both at genuinely problematic users and
			users with contentious but potentially legitimate views." - [http://mail.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2004-May/012438.html Mark Richards]

	Obviously, under these definitions, we are all trolls from time to time, that is, we are all likely to be in some [[dispute]] or [[conflict between users]] and then if there is some [[sysop power structure]], we can be labelled "troll" and so marginalized. This is a fairly typical process, not different from authorship:		Obviously, under these definitions, we are all trolls from time to time, that is, we are all likely to be in some [[dispute]] or [[conflict between users]] and then if there is some [[sysop power structure]], we can be labelled "troll" and so marginalized. This is a fairly typical process, not different from authorship:
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	A [[wiki]] is [[troll-friendly]] when a [[friendly troll]] gets [[due process]], and consideration of his "fiction" as a peer to other fiction, without regard to [[reputation]]. That is usually all they want.		A [[wiki]] is [[troll-friendly]] when a [[friendly troll]] gets [[due process]], and consideration of his "fiction" as a peer to other fiction, without regard to [[reputation]]. That is usually all they want.

			A wiki is by contrast troll-hostile and ruled by a [[GodKing]] if "deliberately
			disrupting work... in order to foster change, etc." can be unilaterally labelled as "problematic [[trolling]]" by one person or a small group, e.g. [http://mail.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2004-May/012444.html Jim Wales]

	See also:		See also:
	* http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=360db514.18861087%40news.pipeline.com		* http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=360db514.18861087%40news.pipeline.com

142.177.92.38: +Theresa Robinson's view

2004-05-29T02:48:31Z

+Theresa Robinson's view

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:48, 29 May 2004
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	of saying it is a troll." - [http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/troll_ignorance.html "troll ignorance", Xah Lee]		of saying it is a troll." - [http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/troll_ignorance.html "troll ignorance", Xah Lee]

	Obviously, under ~~this definition~~, we are all trolls from time to time, that is, we are all likely to be in some [[conflict between users]] and then if there is some [[sysop power structure]], we can be labelled "troll" and so marginalized. This is a fairly typical process, not different from authorship:		"I find that the term "troll" means pretty
			much nothing, or it just means "somebody doing something I don't like." - [http://mail.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2004-May/012437.html Theresa Robinson]

			Obviously, under these definitions, we are all trolls from time to time, that is, we are all likely to be in some [[dispute]] or [[conflict between users]] and then if there is some [[sysop power structure]], we can be labelled "troll" and so marginalized. This is a fairly typical process, not different from authorship:

	"The author does not precede the works; he is a certain functional principle by which, in our culture, one [[limits, excludes, chooses and impedes]] the [[free circulation of fiction]]." - [[Michel Foucault]]		"The author does not precede the works; he is a certain functional principle by which, in our culture, one [[limits, excludes, chooses and impedes]] the [[free circulation of fiction]]." - [[Michel Foucault]]

142.177.112.180: credible reference on "troll"; refuting lies from career liars (Wikipedians, Meatball Wikicrats) who claim to be qualified psychiatrists

2004-02-18T21:14:01Z

credible reference on "troll"; refuting lies from career liars (Wikipedians, Meatball Wikicrats) who claim to be qualified psychiatrists

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 "The author does not precede the works;  he is a certain functional principle by which, in our culture, one [[limits, excludes, chooses and impedes]] the [[free circulation of fiction]]." - [[Michel Foucault]]
-[[Trolls]] are those who agree with Foucault and so reject both authorship and the association of authorship with fiction.  To trolls, there is no such thing as an individual "troll", so the use of the term in the singular is confined to sysops.  See [[w:Internet troll|Internet troll (Wikipedia)]] for examples of their anti-troll [[propaganda]] and [[m:troll|troll (Meta-Wikipedia)]] for a troll view, in which sysops are defined as simply "less mature individual troll personalities who have not yet found a group they can comfortably be trolls in".
+One view of "real [[trolls]]" is that they are those who wilfully agree with Foucault and so reject both authorship and the association of authorship with fiction.  To trolls, there is no such thing as an individual "troll", so the use of the term in the singular is confined to sysops.  See [[w:Internet troll|Internet troll (Wikipedia)]] for examples of their anti-troll [[propaganda]] and [[m:troll|troll (Meta-Wikipedia)]] for a troll view, in which sysops are defined as simply "less mature individual troll personalities who have not yet found a group they can comfortably be trolls in".  A hierarchy with the sysop (those who require technological power over others to feel they can belong) at the entry point, and the troll as the [[culminative outcome]], is formed.  If this is desirable, then, troll-friendly [[wiki]]s are the best:
 A [[wiki]] is [[troll-friendly]] when a [[friendly troll]] gets [[due process]], and consideration of his "fiction" as a peer to other fiction, without regard to [[reputation]].  That is usually all they want.

142.177.103.239: use of this term in the singular is confined to non-trolls who psychiatrically insist on defining "behaviour" from their own God's Eye View - to trolls there is just a "we", "trolls..."

2003-12-21T23:40:25Z

use of this term in the singular is confined to non-trolls who psychiatrically insist on defining "behaviour" from their own God's Eye View - to trolls there is just a "we", "trolls..."

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:40, 21 December 2003
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	See [[w:Internet troll\|Internet troll (Wikipedia)]] for anti-troll [[propaganda]] and [[m:troll\|troll (Meta-Wikipedia)]] for troll view.		"The author does not precede the works; he is a certain functional principle by which, in our culture, one [[limits, excludes, chooses and impedes]] the [[free circulation of fiction]]." - [[Michel Foucault]]
	A [[wiki]] is [[troll-friendly]] when a [[friendly troll]] gets [[due process]].
	That is usually all they want.		[[Trolls]] are those who agree with Foucault and so reject both authorship and the association of authorship with fiction. To trolls, there is no such thing as an individual "troll", so the use of the term in the singular is confined to sysops. See [[w:Internet troll\|Internet troll (Wikipedia)]] for examples of their anti-troll [[propaganda]] and [[m:troll\|troll (Meta-Wikipedia)]] for a troll view, in which sysops are defined as simply "less mature individual troll personalities who have not yet found a group they can comfortably be trolls in".

			A [[wiki]] is [[troll-friendly]] when a [[friendly troll]] gets [[due process]], and consideration of his "fiction" as a peer to other fiction, without regard to [[reputation]]. That is usually all they want.

			See also:
	* http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=360db514.18861087%40news.pipeline.com		* http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=360db514.18861087%40news.pipeline.com

142.154.115.97 at 05:10, 2 December 2003

2003-12-02T05:10:43Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:10, 2 December 2003
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	A [[wiki]] is [[troll-friendly]] when a [[friendly troll]] gets [[due process]].		A [[wiki]] is [[troll-friendly]] when a [[friendly troll]] gets [[due process]].
	That is usually all they want.		That is usually all they want.
			* http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=360db514.18861087%40news.pipeline.com