Talk:Wikipedia (from 142 perspective) - Revision history

142.177.109.161: whole Red Faction seems to share this perspective, there is no "142 perspective", that's just an IP range

2004-09-09T16:50:44Z

whole Red Faction seems to share this perspective, there is no "142 perspective", that's just an IP range

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	~~The entire~~ [[~~m:]] Meta-Wikipedia is devoted to~~ Talk ~~about Wikipedia. Please don't do it here!~~		#REDIRECT [[Talk:Wikipedia (Reds)]]

	~~--------------~~

	~~Only issue worth noting is who we don't want coming over here. It's now getting quite easy to identify who the ideologically motivated censors are:~~

	~~[http://mail.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2004-March/011420.html This account] correctly quotes the [[sysop vandalism\|sysop-vandal]] [[w:User:Pakaran]] and the [[w:racism\|overt racist]] [[w:User~~:~~RickK]] as conspiring to attack and remove views from a contrary POV, that of [[Reds]].~~

	~~According to that account, "The comments by User:Pakaran~~
	~~are merely an example of a broader, overarching pattern; the abuse of users~~
	~~who hold unpopular beliefs is practically out in the open now and out of~~
	control." [[w:User:Jimbo_Wales]] calls this [[sysop vigilantiism]], though he himself admits an [http://mail.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2004-March/011439.html anti-communist viewpoint] probably due to being American and brainwashed by racists and fascists in primary school.

	Sokolov's list of racists and fascists engaged in this behaviour include[http://mail.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2004-March/011443.html "Pakaran, RickK, Adam Carr, PMA, Very Verily, Tim Starling, and Robert Merkel"]. Of these [[w:User:Adam_Carr]] seems most egregious to Sokolov/172. Interesting how this list compares to those listed in the various [[AWR]]. It could not be a coincidence that on a list of ONLY SEVEN USERS, that THREE OF THEM would be also those engaged in ideological censorship earlier, against 142 and others - see [[142.X.X.X/Tim_Starling]] for instance, where Starling basically admits his whole motivation for adding range blocks to [[mediawiki]] is ideological.

	~~--------------~~

	~~There's an interesting discussion on the [http://www.webbyawards.com/peoplesvoice/index.html Webby - People's Voice] message boards about~~ Wikipedia~~'s nominations~~ (~~under the "Community" and "Best practices" categories). It is partly referenced in a [[w:Wikipedia:Village pump]] thread (subject: Integrity of Wikipedia as an Encyclopedia).~~

	~~If you want to view or contribute comments on the Webby Awards website, go there, log in and look under "community" and "best practices" for comments.~~

	~~''From [[w:Wikipedia_talk:Webby Awards]]''~~

	:"The day will come when I will put out the call for funds to distribute paper copies of Wikipedia to every child in every third world country in the world. This, too, is our mission...to achieve those goals will require us to become famous, to become a household name to every single person on the planet. Why? Because to distribute our work to everyone in the world is going to cost an enormous ton of money,...We're taking part in a revolution here, not playing around with a sideline hobby...I fully intend to get a copy of Wikipedia to every single person on the planet, and I'll do what it takes to get there" - Wales.

	~~:This would be profitable for the paper and printing industry. What do you suggest then, printing and distributing [[Wikinfo]]? --[[User:Juxo\|Juxo]] 17:15, 27 Apr 2004 (EEST~~)

	~~::Wales must be stopped, now, before he and his clique really do rule the encyclopedia world. He used to be just an incompetent hobbyist. Now he wants to be the Bill Gates of content.~~

	~~::This would be extremely dangerous for the planet itself, given [[w:GDP]~~] ~~and other far right wing entries, the unbalanced "community" that "protects" these to remain acceptable to far-right Americans. There's also deliberate censorship of even mildly green entries.~~

	~~::The right answer is for an [[independent board~~]], say from [http://longnow.org longnow] or some bunch of [[NGO]]s, to take over and figure out what an ideal [[developing nation]] village actually cares about, and then make sure at least that is there in [[Simple English]]. Sabotaging this kind of thing is what makes good projects into [[enemy projects]]. The [[GFDL Corpus]] must be taken over by some more responsible group that cares about its users, not its own "community"/cliques.

	~~:::Feel free to do so, it's [[GFDL]] stupid~~

	~~''also from that page''~~

	~~Integrity of Wikipedia as an Encyclopedia~~

	While I was voting for Wikipedia under the category of community, I ran accross a comment that suggested Wikipedia is not a community and that the encyclopedia was losing its integrity as a pedia because members were making some sort social hierarchy which resulted in the deletion and reverting of articles on the basis of who wrote it instead of the accuracy of the article. Should these accusations be true, then the goal of Wikipedia as an encyclopedia has be compromised. What I want to know is, are these supposed deletions and revertions on the basis of the writer of an article indeed occuring?

	~~:This is true, it's [[ad hominem delete]] and [[sysop vandalism]], which are absolutely counter to any "real encyclopedia" goals.~~

	~~------~~

	There's an instructive discussion re: Wikipedia and Bomis at [[w:Talk:Fallujah]]. Several users are demanding some sort of disclaimer that Bomis is somehow associated with the U.S. Marine Corps and therefore Wikipedia/Wikimedia cannot be neutral in editing such articles as Fallujah. Jimmy Wales has replied [http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2004-April/012277.html here]

	~~-----------~~

	~~"Trolls and vandals [aren't] the problem -- its the control freaks who are the real problem." - Adam Rinkleff [http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2004-April/012098.html]~~

	:Absolutely correct. In fact the [[trolls]] are the freedom fighters, and the [[vandals]] now seem to be serving a necessary purpose by keeping many sysops who are control freaks distracted, and hopefully burning them out eventually.

	~~------------~~

	~~Also, [http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2004-April/012077.html some on the mailing list] are actually advocating participating in [[googlebombing]] for partisan causes.~~

	~~------------~~

	~~[[English Wikipedia User Plautus satire]] [http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:JustNews comments] on Wikipedia:~~

	:"I can speak from personal experience with Wales and wikipedia, they are not nearly as interested in accuracy as they are in getting a polished product to package and sell to the highest (Disney) bidder. Blocking of users is frequent and capricious. The admins there run in packs, any time one of them finds something they want drowned off the pages, they alert the other admins who all stand in line to revert it one after another until they goad people into getting nasty with them. Classic [[troll mafia]] techniques, that project is shit as far as I'm concerned."

	::The correct move is to discredit [[Wikimedia]] with the governments and corporate bidders that have expressed interest or support, and to create other [[GFDL corpus access provider]]s that are free of this [[Wikimedia corruption]].

	~~------~~

	[[w:User:Secretlondon\|English Wikipedia User Secretlondon]] [http://www.livejournal.com/users/secretlondon/3206.html details] how [[Jimbo Wales]] has sent an offensive email to her, telling her he was "sick of her anti-American prejudice", resulting in Secretlondon's decision to stop writing for Wikipedia.

	~~:Probably she just did not share his [[Fox News point of view]]. ;-)~~

142.177.114.38: :Probably she just did not share his Fox News point of view. ;-)

2004-09-03T18:47:28Z

:Probably she just did not share his Fox News point of view. ;-)

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	[[w:User:Secretlondon\|English Wikipedia User Secretlondon]] [http://www.livejournal.com/users/secretlondon/3206.html details] how [[Jimbo Wales]] has sent an offensive email to her, telling her he was "sick of her anti-American prejudice", resulting in Secretlondon's decision to stop writing for Wikipedia.		[[w:User:Secretlondon\|English Wikipedia User Secretlondon]] [http://www.livejournal.com/users/secretlondon/3206.html details] how [[Jimbo Wales]] has sent an offensive email to her, telling her he was "sick of her anti-American prejudice", resulting in Secretlondon's decision to stop writing for Wikipedia.

			:Probably she just did not share his [[Fox News point of view]]. ;-)

66.235.184.105 at 17:52, 3 September 2004

2004-09-03T17:52:58Z

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	::The correct move is to discredit [[Wikimedia]] with the governments and corporate bidders that have expressed interest or support, and to create other [[GFDL corpus access provider]]s that are free of this [[Wikimedia corruption]].		::The correct move is to discredit [[Wikimedia]] with the governments and corporate bidders that have expressed interest or support, and to create other [[GFDL corpus access provider]]s that are free of this [[Wikimedia corruption]].

			------

			[[w:User:Secretlondon\|English Wikipedia User Secretlondon]] [http://www.livejournal.com/users/secretlondon/3206.html details] how [[Jimbo Wales]] has sent an offensive email to her, telling her he was "sick of her anti-American prejudice", resulting in Secretlondon's decision to stop writing for Wikipedia.

Trolling Consumerium: link troll mafia: we need a good article on these passive-aggressive tactics, and their relation to "soft security"

2004-07-02T10:06:42Z

link troll mafia: we need a good article on these passive-aggressive tactics, and their relation to "soft security"

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:06, 2 July 2004
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	[[English Wikipedia User Plautus satire]] [http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:JustNews comments] on Wikipedia:		[[English Wikipedia User Plautus satire]] [http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:JustNews comments] on Wikipedia:

	:"I can speak from personal experience with Wales and wikipedia, they are not nearly as interested in accuracy as they are in getting a polished product to package and sell to the highest (Disney) bidder. Blocking of users is frequent and capricious. The admins there run in packs, any time one of them finds something they want drowned off the pages, they alert the other admins who all stand in line to revert it one after another until they goad people into getting nasty with them. Classic troll mafia techniques, that project is shit as far as I'm concerned."		:"I can speak from personal experience with Wales and wikipedia, they are not nearly as interested in accuracy as they are in getting a polished product to package and sell to the highest (Disney) bidder. Blocking of users is frequent and capricious. The admins there run in packs, any time one of them finds something they want drowned off the pages, they alert the other admins who all stand in line to revert it one after another until they goad people into getting nasty with them. Classic [[troll mafia]] techniques, that project is shit as far as I'm concerned."

	::The correct move is to discredit [[Wikimedia]] with the governments and corporate bidders that have expressed interest or support, and to create other [[GFDL corpus access provider]]s that are free of this [[Wikimedia corruption]].		::The correct move is to discredit [[Wikimedia]] with the governments and corporate bidders that have expressed interest or support, and to create other [[GFDL corpus access provider]]s that are free of this [[Wikimedia corruption]].

Jukeboksi: lawsuits are not a good way to handle GFDL problems

2004-06-30T10:37:35Z

lawsuits are not a good way to handle GFDL problems

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:37, 30 June 2004
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	::The correct move is to discredit [[Wikimedia]] with the governments and corporate bidders that have expressed interest or support, and to create other [[GFDL corpus access provider]]s that are free of this [[Wikimedia corruption]].		::The correct move is to discredit [[Wikimedia]] with the governments and corporate bidders that have expressed interest or support, and to create other [[GFDL corpus access provider]]s that are free of this [[Wikimedia corruption]].

	::And, file [[lawsuit]]s and formal complaints every time they commit [[libel]] or encourage harassment of the so-called "[[trolls]]". Make sure that there is a very long list of formal complaints against them in Florida where they've registered as a charity, and make sure the [[FSF]] is flooded with complaints of [[GFDL violation]]s. The [[sysop power structure]] is less stable than most people think - it's mindless reaction by a bunch of profoundly confused people who are easily led around by the nose to whatever errors one feels like making them make. [[Ragnarok]] is near!

142.177.76.215 at 19:56, 29 June 2004

2004-06-29T19:56:23Z

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	::The correct move is to discredit [[Wikimedia]] with the governments and corporate bidders that have expressed interest or support, and to create other [[GFDL corpus access provider]]s that are free of this [[Wikimedia corruption]].		::The correct move is to discredit [[Wikimedia]] with the governments and corporate bidders that have expressed interest or support, and to create other [[GFDL corpus access provider]]s that are free of this [[Wikimedia corruption]].

	::And, file [[lawsuit]]s and formal complaints every time they commit [[libel]] or encourage harassment of the so-called "[[trolls]]". Make sure that there is a very long list of formal complaints against them in Florida where they've registered as a charity, and make sure the [[FSF]] is flooded with complaints of [[GFDL violation]]s. The [[sysop power structure]] is less stable than most people think - it's mindless reaction by a bunch of profoundly confused people who are easily led around by the nose to whatever errors one feels like making them make.		::And, file [[lawsuit]]s and formal complaints every time they commit [[libel]] or encourage harassment of the so-called "[[trolls]]". Make sure that there is a very long list of formal complaints against them in Florida where they've registered as a charity, and make sure the [[FSF]] is flooded with complaints of [[GFDL violation]]s. The [[sysop power structure]] is less stable than most people think - it's mindless reaction by a bunch of profoundly confused people who are easily led around by the nose to whatever errors one feels like making them make. [[Ragnarok]] is near!

142.177.76.215: eradicate Wikimedia but don't give up on the GFDL corpus

2004-06-29T19:54:41Z

eradicate Wikimedia but don't give up on the GFDL corpus

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:54, 29 June 2004
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	:"I can speak from personal experience with Wales and wikipedia, they are not nearly as interested in accuracy as they are in getting a polished product to package and sell to the highest (Disney) bidder. Blocking of users is frequent and capricious. The admins there run in packs, any time one of them finds something they want drowned off the pages, they alert the other admins who all stand in line to revert it one after another until they goad people into getting nasty with them. Classic troll mafia techniques, that project is shit as far as I'm concerned."		:"I can speak from personal experience with Wales and wikipedia, they are not nearly as interested in accuracy as they are in getting a polished product to package and sell to the highest (Disney) bidder. Blocking of users is frequent and capricious. The admins there run in packs, any time one of them finds something they want drowned off the pages, they alert the other admins who all stand in line to revert it one after another until they goad people into getting nasty with them. Classic troll mafia techniques, that project is shit as far as I'm concerned."

			::The correct move is to discredit [[Wikimedia]] with the governments and corporate bidders that have expressed interest or support, and to create other [[GFDL corpus access provider]]s that are free of this [[Wikimedia corruption]].

			::And, file [[lawsuit]]s and formal complaints every time they commit [[libel]] or encourage harassment of the so-called "[[trolls]]". Make sure that there is a very long list of formal complaints against them in Florida where they've registered as a charity, and make sure the [[FSF]] is flooded with complaints of [[GFDL violation]]s. The [[sysop power structure]] is less stable than most people think - it's mindless reaction by a bunch of profoundly confused people who are easily led around by the nose to whatever errors one feels like making them make.

Trolling Consumerium at 17:12, 29 June 2004

2004-06-29T17:12:10Z

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	Also, [http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2004-April/012077.html some on the mailing list] are actually advocating participating in [[googlebombing]] for partisan causes.		Also, [http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2004-April/012077.html some on the mailing list] are actually advocating participating in [[googlebombing]] for partisan causes.

			------------

			[[English Wikipedia User Plautus satire]] [http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:JustNews comments] on Wikipedia:

			:"I can speak from personal experience with Wales and wikipedia, they are not nearly as interested in accuracy as they are in getting a polished product to package and sell to the highest (Disney) bidder. Blocking of users is frequent and capricious. The admins there run in packs, any time one of them finds something they want drowned off the pages, they alert the other admins who all stand in line to revert it one after another until they goad people into getting nasty with them. Classic troll mafia techniques, that project is shit as far as I'm concerned."

142.177.103.64 at 15:20, 2 May 2004

2004-05-02T15:20:39Z

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	:Absolutely correct. In fact the [[trolls]] are the freedom fighters, and the [[vandals]] now seem to be serving a necessary purpose by keeping many sysops who are control freaks distracted, and hopefully burning them out eventually.		:Absolutely correct. In fact the [[trolls]] are the freedom fighters, and the [[vandals]] now seem to be serving a necessary purpose by keeping many sysops who are control freaks distracted, and hopefully burning them out eventually.

			------------

			Also, [http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2004-April/012077.html some on the mailing list] are actually advocating participating in [[googlebombing]] for partisan causes.

142.177.103.64: Rinkleff quote

2004-05-02T15:18:18Z

Rinkleff quote

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:18, 2 May 2004
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	There's an instructive discussion re: Wikipedia and Bomis at [[w:Talk:Fallujah]]. Several users are demanding some sort of disclaimer that Bomis is somehow associated with the U.S. Marine Corps and therefore Wikipedia/Wikimedia cannot be neutral in editing such articles as Fallujah. Jimmy Wales has replied [http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2004-April/012277.html here]		There's an instructive discussion re: Wikipedia and Bomis at [[w:Talk:Fallujah]]. Several users are demanding some sort of disclaimer that Bomis is somehow associated with the U.S. Marine Corps and therefore Wikipedia/Wikimedia cannot be neutral in editing such articles as Fallujah. Jimmy Wales has replied [http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2004-April/012277.html here]

			-----------

			"Trolls and vandals [aren't] the problem -- its the control freaks who are the real problem." - Adam Rinkleff [http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2004-April/012098.html]

			:Absolutely correct. In fact the [[trolls]] are the freedom fighters, and the [[vandals]] now seem to be serving a necessary purpose by keeping many sysops who are control freaks distracted, and hopefully burning them out eventually.