Simple model for expressing opinions - Revision history

Jukeboksi: */Company name/Workplace Upgrade Request/message - these will be distributed to all parties

2006-09-27T21:50:19Z

*/Company name/Workplace Upgrade Request/message - these will be distributed to all parties

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:50, 27 September 2006
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	*/Company name/Product name/[[reviews]]/message - these will be shown to other consumers and wikifiers		*/Company name/Product name/[[reviews]]/message - these will be shown to other consumers and wikifiers
	*/Company name/[[campaigns]]/message - these will be shown to other consumers and wikifiers		*/Company name/[[campaigns]]/message - these will be shown to other consumers and wikifiers
	*/Company name/[[Workplace Upgrade]] Request/message		*/Company name/[[Workplace Upgrade]] Request/message - these will be distributed to all parties

	Only special namespace will be [[Consumerium:]] this accomondates for future adjustments		Only special namespace will be [[Consumerium:]] this accomondates for future adjustments

Jukeboksi: ==Use of redirects==all 8 and 13 digit number sequences redirect from EAN codes to product pages or company pages (requires detection of 100 vs. 10,000 product namespace)

2006-09-27T21:47:12Z

==Use of redirects==all 8 and 13 digit number sequences redirect from EAN codes to product pages or company pages (requires detection of 100 vs. 10,000 product namespace)

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:47, 27 September 2006
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	[[Categories]] are used for tagging such as <nowiki>{{Transnational corporation}} or {{Local business}}</nowiki>		[[Categories]] are used for tagging such as <nowiki>{{Transnational corporation}} or {{Local business}}</nowiki>

			==Use of redirects==
			all 8 and 13 digit number sequences [[redirect]] from [[EAN]] codes to product pages or company pages (requires detection of 100 vs. 10,000 product namespace)

	==Use of voting==		==Use of voting==

Jukeboksi: WIKIFY!

2006-09-27T21:30:24Z

WIKIFY!

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:30, 27 September 2006
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	at any level short messages can be appended especially in		at any level short messages can be appended especially in
	*/Company name/feedback/message - these will be delivered to the company in question		*/Company name/[[feedback]]/message - these will be delivered to the company in question
	*/Company name/Product name/reviews/message - these will be shown to other consumers and wikifiers		*/Company name/Product name/[[reviews]]/message - these will be shown to other consumers and wikifiers
	*/Company name/campaigns/message - these will be shown to other consumers and wikifiers		*/Company name/[[campaigns]]/message - these will be shown to other consumers and wikifiers
	*/Company name/[[Workplace Upgrade]] Request/message		*/Company name/[[Workplace Upgrade]] Request/message

Jukeboksi: added */Company name/Workplace Upgrade Request/message

2006-09-27T21:28:45Z

added */Company name/Workplace Upgrade Request/message

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:28, 27 September 2006
Line 13:		Line 13:
	*/Company name/Product name/reviews/message - these will be shown to other consumers and wikifiers		*/Company name/Product name/reviews/message - these will be shown to other consumers and wikifiers
	*/Company name/campaigns/message - these will be shown to other consumers and wikifiers		*/Company name/campaigns/message - these will be shown to other consumers and wikifiers
			*/Company name/[[Workplace Upgrade]] Request/message

	Only special namespace will be [[Consumerium:]] this accomondates for future adjustments		Only special namespace will be [[Consumerium:]] this accomondates for future adjustments

Jukeboksi: *m:User:Juxo/Extensions/ListSubPages - lists subpages for a given page

2006-09-27T20:47:23Z

*m:User:Juxo/Extensions/ListSubPages - lists subpages for a given page

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:47, 27 September 2006
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	example: Inserting a FI changes the language for subarticles to Finnish /Company name/FI/Brändin nimi/Tuotteen nimi/arvostelu/viesti		example: Inserting a FI changes the language for subarticles to Finnish /Company name/FI/Brändin nimi/Tuotteen nimi/arvostelu/viesti

			==Extensions==
			*[[m:User:Juxo/Extensions/ListSubPages]] - lists subpages for a given page and is needed to provide a view into subarticles

	==Use of categories==		==Use of categories==

Jukeboksi: slight clarify

2006-09-27T19:47:29Z

slight clarify

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:47, 27 September 2006
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	*/Company name/feedback/message - these will be delivered to the company in question		*/Company name/feedback/message - these will be delivered to the company in question
	*/Company name/Product name/reviews/message - these will be shown to other consumers and wikifiers		*/Company name/Product name/reviews/message - these will be shown to other consumers and wikifiers
	*/Company ~~name/Product~~ name/campaigns/message - these will be shown to other consumers and wikifiers		*/Company name/campaigns/message - these will be shown to other consumers and wikifiers

	Only special namespace will be [[Consumerium:]] this accomondates for future adjustments		Only special namespace will be [[Consumerium:]] this accomondates for future adjustments

Jukeboksi: basic scratch from the scratch

2006-09-27T19:34:49Z

basic scratch from the scratch

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:34, 27 September 2006
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	~~Opinions can be expressed by individual [[user]]s (reviews and voting) and [[organisation]]s (campaigns and voting) (be they real or virtual).~~		==Basic article naming==

	~~The current plan~~ is ~~to integrate [[Opinion Wiki]] into [[Research Wiki]] and this is the simple model for figuring out how much support/resistance each expressed opinion has~~		basic article name structure is as follows:

	~~==Individual consumers==~~		/Company name/Brand name/Product name/

	~~===Writing and registering reviews===~~		also
	~~Each user of [[Research Wiki]] can make [[review]]s of [[product]]s, [[companies]], [[countries]] etc. but they must do so within their own User-space.~~

	~~[[User:SomeUser~~/~~reviews/Descriptive name of review incl. reviewed entity and stance taken]] article is freeform text and the User is assumed to take responsibility for what s/he writes. The~~ name of the review can include a [[score]] but definitive for stating the score given by the reviewer to the revievee is determined by examining the first link in the article which should point to (for a product) to [[Product:SomeProduct/Reviews/~~Score]] where score is an integer within the range from Minus3 to Plus3.~~		/Country name/

	~~Now~~ the ~~"what links here" from (say [[~~Product~~:SomeProduct~~/~~Reviews~~/~~Plus3]] for example) can~~ be ~~used~~ to ~~detect the reviews respectively of their given score~~ and ~~the backlinks and calculation of total average score~~ and ~~number of reviews of certain score for the [[Publish Wiki]]~~		at any level short messages can be appended especially in
			*/Company name/feedback/message - these will be delivered to the company in question
			*/Company name/Product name/reviews/message - these will be shown to other consumers and wikifiers
			*/Company name/Product name/campaigns/message - these will be shown to other consumers and wikifiers

	~~Special~~ [[~~User~~:~~Anonymous coward~~]] ~~will be reserved~~ for anonymous users and trolls to do their reviews. The [[Lowest Troll]] reserves the right to treat anonymous and registered users differently in the collation and aggregation of data until a [[CGO]] is formed to rule on issues arising from anonymous posts.		Only special namespace will be [[Consumerium:]] this accomondates for future adjustments

	Language ~~of each review is indicated one of the following ways:~~		==Language selection==
	~~#[[User:YourUserName/Reviews/lc/NameOfReviewInRespectiveLangauge]] where ''lc'' is langauge~~ code		Inserting a ISO two letter language code changes the language of all it's subarticles. This will make it simple to move languages to their own wiki when it's time.
	~~#[[User:YourUserName/"Reviews" in~~ the ~~respective langauge/NameOfReview]]~~
	~~#linking~~ to ~~[[Namespace:SomeEntity/"Reviews" in respective language/Score]]~~

	~~Thus as "Reviews" is "arviot" or "arvostelut" in~~ Finnish ~~the correct artcle~~ name ~~would be [[User:SomeUser~~/~~Arvostelut~~/ArvostelunNimi]] for a review in Finnish. Which of the three above alternatives is used is not decided. The decicion will have to take into account the software performance and user friendliness factors.		example: Inserting a FI changes the language for subarticles to Finnish /Company name/FI/Brändin nimi/Tuotteen nimi/arvostelu/viesti

	==~~=Voting for campaigns=~~==		==Use of categories==

	~~For simplicitys sake in the begining '''only registered users get to vote on~~ [[~~Campaign~~]]s''' and they do so by casting their [[Direct Vote]]s and [[Indirect Vote]] via subpages of their user-page ie. by [[WikiVote]] so for now nevermind what the above articles state about more complicated schemes for ~~voting. Later on more inclusive voting systems may be introduced.~~		[[Categories]] are used for tagging such as <nowiki>{{Transnational corporation}} or {{Local business}}</nowiki>

	~~Linking to any [[Campaign:SomeCampaignTheyAreRunning/Vote]] from [[User:SomeUser/votes]] will count as a direct vote. Note that you are allowed to vote only once for each [[Campaign]] [[Category]].~~		==Use of voting==

	~~And... Yes I know there could be problems with [[Sock puppet]]s and yes we will develop~~ some ~~user parametrisable filter that weeds out likely sock puppets by number of edits and~~ time ~~registered and their ratio. The parameters are best left up to everyone to decide on their own as this makes vote rigging more difficult since it~~ is ~~not known what parameters people are using~~.		No voting system for some time after a pilot is launched.

	~~[[Indirect vote]] is a vote you cannot use for yourself but you can choose one organisation you give the mandate to use your indirect vote. You do this~~ by linking to the [[Group:SomeGroup/Vote]] from a page titled [[User:YourUserName/Votes/IndirectVote]]. You may give your indirect vote only to one organisation (real or virtual) that has registered itself as an organisation within the Research Wiki. You may change your choice of organisation any time.		Later on voting by [[Indirect Vote]]s and [[Direct Vote]]s and various other methods of votee and vote counting
	~~----~~
	~~==Organisations==~~
	~~===Voting===~~
	~~Any organisation that has received one or more~~ [[Indirect Vote]]s ~~may start voting on campaigns with the power of all those indirect votes given to it by linking to [[Organisation:YourOrganisation/Vote]] from the users indirect vote page.~~

	~~Only one campaign in each campaign category may be voted at one time and it can be changed any time.~~

	~~Who has the right to use the votes of an organisation is up to the organisation to decide. In case you feel that your voting page (or other pages) require protection~~ and~~/or limited access by chosen users you must contact~~ [[~~Consumerium:Staff]] about arranging this. Arrangements require at least one representative of the organisation to be a [[Verified User]]. See that article on how that is done.~~

	~~Votes are simply cast by linking from [[Organisation:YourOrganisation/OurVotes]] to [[Campaign:SomeCampaign/~~Vote]]

	~~Organisation'~~s ~~right to transfer it's voting power to another organisation is undecided.~~


	~~===Campaigning===~~
	~~[[Campaign]]ing is done only by organisations be they real or virtual.~~

	Virtual ad hoc organisations for running campaigns may be formed by at least two real or virtual organisations, virtual organisations is an ad hoc name for describing an entity that exists only within Consumerium. Suggestions for a better name (Wiki Group?) are welcome.

	~~Campaign leader is the organisation that maintains the campaign~~ and ~~'''assumes responsibility for any claims made in the campaign''' thus the campaigns are in the form~~ of [[Campaign:DescriptiveCampaignName]] where the first link to [[Entity:SomeEntity/Campaigns/Score]] (where score is an integer from Minus3 to Plus3). This first link is used to determine the [[target]] of the campaign and ~~the score of the campaign.~~

	It is yet unclear whether we should allow for multiple targets with different scores for each score where some target could receive a negative score and some other target could receibe a positive score.

	~~[[Campaign:DescriptiveCampaignName/Vote]] must be properly set up to receive [[Direct Votes]] to gain more weight for the campaign.~~

	~~All the indirect votes of the organisation running the campaign are automatically credited to their own campaigns thus you cannot~~ vote ~~for other campaigns in the same campaign category as the campaigns you are running.~~

	Any Virtual Groups you join in with other organisations automatically get your votes in the categories they campaign in. It is up to organisations to make sure they aren't accidentally running multiple campaigns in one campaign category due to being part of virtual groups. This will be enforced.

	Forming a virtual group with other organisations with stakes in some campaign is used to gain more weight for the campaign. The campaigners indicated in [[Campaign:SomeCampaign/Campaigners]] share the responsibility of campaign statements truthfullness and assume the legal liabilities that may follow. Failure to do so may lead to the campaign being retired to avoid [[Consumerium:Itself]] being sued.

	~~Campaigns may or may not correspond with "real world" campaigns. Real world and "only Consumerium" campaigns may get different treatment/listing ie. they may be presented in separate listings.~~

	~~--[[User:Juxo\|Juxo]] 18:16, 4 Nov 2004 (EET)~~

Jukeboksi: lose the apostrophes for linking

2004-11-04T16:39:26Z

lose the apostrophes for linking

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:39, 4 November 2004
Line 5:		Line 5:
	==Individual consumers==		==Individual consumers==

	===Writing and "registering" reviews===		===Writing and registering reviews===
	Each user of [[Research Wiki]] can make [[review]]s of [[product]]s, [[companies]], [[countries]] etc. but they must do so within their own User-space.		Each user of [[Research Wiki]] can make [[review]]s of [[product]]s, [[companies]], [[countries]] etc. but they must do so within their own User-space.

Jukeboksi: revisioned so that campaigns are all in Campaign-namespace

2004-11-04T16:16:18Z

revisioned so that campaigns are all in Campaign-namespace

Jukeboksi: here's the plan for Research Wiki structures for expressing opinions. it's not yet totally complete or completely sanity checked but i strongly feel this is the way to go

2004-09-20T18:36:07Z

here's the plan for Research Wiki structures for expressing opinions. it's not yet totally complete or completely sanity checked but i strongly feel this is the way to go

New page

Opinions can be expressed by individual [[user]]s (reviews and voting) and [[organisation]]s (campaigns and voting) (be they real or virtual).

The current plan is to integrate [[Opinion Wiki]] into [[Research Wiki]] and this is the simple model for figuring out how much support/resistance each expressed opinion has

==Individual consumers==

===Writing and "registering" reviews===
Each user of [[Research Wiki]] can make [[review]]s of [[product]]s, [[companies]], [[countries]] etc. but they must do so within their own User-space.

[[User:SomeUser/reviews/Descriptive name of review incl. reviewed entity and stance taken]] article is freeform text and the User is assumed to take responsibility for what s/he writes. The name of the review can include a [[score]] but definitive for stating the score given by the reviewer to the revievee is determined by examining the first link in the article which should point to (for a product) to [[Product:SomeProduct/Reviews/Score]] where score is an integer within the range from Minus3 to Plus3.

Now the "what links here" from (say [[Product:SomeProduct/Reviews/Plus3]] for example) can be used to detect the reviews respectively of their given score and the backlinks and calculation of total average score and number of reviews of certain score for the [[Publish Wiki]]

Special [[User:Anonymous coward]] will be reserved for anonymous users and trolls to do their reviews. The [[Lowest Troll]] reserves the right to treat anonymous and registered users differently in the collation and aggregation of data until a [[CGO]] is formed to rule on issues arising from anonymous posts.

Language of each review is indicated one of the following ways:
#[[User:YourUserName/Reviews/lc/NameOfReviewInRespectiveLangauge]] where ''lc'' is langauge code
#[[User:YourUserName/"Reviews" in the respective langauge/NameOfReview]]
#linking to [[Namespace:SomeEntity/"Reviews" in respective language/Score]]

Thus as "Reviews" is "arviot" or "arvostelut" in Finnish the correct artcle name would be [[User:SomeUser/Arvostelut/ArvostelunNimi]] for a review in Finnish. Which of the three above alternatives is used is not decided. The decicion will have to take into account the software performance and user friendliness factors.

===Voting for campaigns===

For simplicitys sake in the begining '''only registered users get to vote on [[Campaign]]s''' and they do so by casting their [[Direct Vote]]s and [[Indirect Vote]] via subpages of their user-page ie. by [[WikiVote]] so for now nevermind what the above articles state about more complicated schemes for voting. Later on more inclusive voting systems may be introduced.

Linking to any [[Organisation:SomeOrganisation/SomeCampaignTheyAreRunning/Vote]] from [[User:SomeUser/votes]] will count as a direct vote. Note that you are allowed to vote only once for each [[Campaign]] [[Category]].

And... Yes I know there could be problems with [[Sock puppet]]s and yes we will develop some user parametrisable filter that weeds out likely sock puppets by number of edits and time registered and their ratio. The parameters are best left up to everyone to decide on their own as this makes vote rigging more difficult since it is not known what parameters people are using.

[[Indirect vote]] is a vote you cannot use for yourself but you can choose one organisation you give the mandate to use your indirect vote. You do this by linking to the [[Group:SomeGroup/Vote]] from a page titled [[User:YourUserName/Votes/IndirectVote]]. You may give your indirect vote only to one organisation (real or virtual) that has registered itself as an organisation within the Research Wiki. You may change your choice of organisation any time.
----
==Organisations==
===Voting===
Any organisation that has received one or more [[Indirect Vote]]s may start voting on campaigns with the power of all those indirect votes given to it by linking to [[Organisation:YourOrganisation/Vote]] from the users indirect vote page.

Only one campaign in each campaign category may be voted at one time and it can be changed any time.

Who has the right to use the votes of an organisation is up to the organisation to decide. In case you feel that your voting page (or other pages) require protection and/or limited access by chosen users you must contact [[Consumerium:Staff]] about arranging this. Arrangements require at least one representative of the organisation to be a [[Verified User]]. See that article on how that is done.

Votes are simply cast by linking from [[Organisation:YourOrganisation/OurVotes]] to [[Campaign:SomeCampaign/Vote]]

Organisation's right to transfer it's voting power to another organisation is undecided.

===Campaigning===
[[Campaign]]ing is done only by organisations be they real or virtual.

Virtual ad hoc organisations for running campaigns may be formed by at least two real or virtual organisations, virtual organisations is an ad hoc name for describing an entity that exists only within Consumerium. Suggestions for a better name (Wiki Group?) are welcome.

Campaign leader is the organisation that maintains the campaign and '''assumes responsibility for any claims made in the campaign''' thus the campaigns are in the form of [[Organisation:YourOrganisation/Campaigns/DescriptiveCampaignName]] where the first link to [[Entity:SomeEntity/Campaigns/Score]] (where score is an integer from Minus3 to Plus3). This first link is used to determine the [[target]] of the campaign and the score of the campaign.

It is yet unclear whether we should allow for multiple targets with different scores for each score where some target could receive a negative score and some other target could receibe a positive score.

[[Organisation:YourOrganisation/Campaigns/DescriptiveCampaignName/Vote]] must be properly set up to receive [[Direct Votes]] to gain more weight for the campaign.

All the indirect votes of the organisation running the campaign are automatically credited to their own campaigns thus you cannot vote for other campaigns in the same campaign category as the campaigns you are running.

Any Virtual Groups you join in with other organisations automatically get your votes in the categories they campaign in. It is up to organisations to make sure they aren't accidentally running multiple campaigns in one campaign category due to being part of virtual groups. This will be enforced.

Forming a virtual group with other organisations with stakes in some campaign is used to gain more weight for the campaign. The participants share the responsibility of campaign statements truthfullness and assume the legal liabilities that may follow. Failure to do so may lead to the campaign being retired to avoid [[Consumerium:Itself]] being sued.

Campaigns may or may not correspond with "real world" campaigns. Real world and "only Consumerium" campaigns may get different treatment/listing ie. they may be presented in separate listings.

--[[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 21:36, 20 Sep 2004 (EEST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:16, 4 November 2004
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	For simplicitys sake in the begining '''only registered users get to vote on [[Campaign]]s''' and they do so by casting their [[Direct Vote]]s and [[Indirect Vote]] via subpages of their user-page ie. by [[WikiVote]] so for now nevermind what the above articles state about more complicated schemes for voting. Later on more inclusive voting systems may be introduced.		For simplicitys sake in the begining '''only registered users get to vote on [[Campaign]]s''' and they do so by casting their [[Direct Vote]]s and [[Indirect Vote]] via subpages of their user-page ie. by [[WikiVote]] so for now nevermind what the above articles state about more complicated schemes for voting. Later on more inclusive voting systems may be introduced.

	Linking to any [[~~Organisation~~:~~SomeOrganisation/~~SomeCampaignTheyAreRunning/Vote]] from [[User:SomeUser/votes]] will count as a direct vote. Note that you are allowed to vote only once for each [[Campaign]] [[Category]].		Linking to any [[Campaign:SomeCampaignTheyAreRunning/Vote]] from [[User:SomeUser/votes]] will count as a direct vote. Note that you are allowed to vote only once for each [[Campaign]] [[Category]].

	And... Yes I know there could be problems with [[Sock puppet]]s and yes we will develop some user parametrisable filter that weeds out likely sock puppets by number of edits and time registered and their ratio. The parameters are best left up to everyone to decide on their own as this makes vote rigging more difficult since it is not known what parameters people are using.		And... Yes I know there could be problems with [[Sock puppet]]s and yes we will develop some user parametrisable filter that weeds out likely sock puppets by number of edits and time registered and their ratio. The parameters are best left up to everyone to decide on their own as this makes vote rigging more difficult since it is not known what parameters people are using.
Line 49:		Line 49:
	Virtual ad hoc organisations for running campaigns may be formed by at least two real or virtual organisations, virtual organisations is an ad hoc name for describing an entity that exists only within Consumerium. Suggestions for a better name (Wiki Group?) are welcome.		Virtual ad hoc organisations for running campaigns may be formed by at least two real or virtual organisations, virtual organisations is an ad hoc name for describing an entity that exists only within Consumerium. Suggestions for a better name (Wiki Group?) are welcome.

	Campaign leader is the organisation that maintains the campaign and '''assumes responsibility for any claims made in the campaign''' thus the campaigns are in the form of [[~~Organisation~~:~~YourOrganisation/Campaigns/~~DescriptiveCampaignName]] where the first link to [[Entity:SomeEntity/Campaigns/Score]] (where score is an integer from Minus3 to Plus3). This first link is used to determine the [[target]] of the campaign and the score of the campaign.		Campaign leader is the organisation that maintains the campaign and '''assumes responsibility for any claims made in the campaign''' thus the campaigns are in the form of [[Campaign:DescriptiveCampaignName]] where the first link to [[Entity:SomeEntity/Campaigns/Score]] (where score is an integer from Minus3 to Plus3). This first link is used to determine the [[target]] of the campaign and the score of the campaign.

	It is yet unclear whether we should allow for multiple targets with different scores for each score where some target could receive a negative score and some other target could receibe a positive score.		It is yet unclear whether we should allow for multiple targets with different scores for each score where some target could receive a negative score and some other target could receibe a positive score.

	[[~~Organisation~~:~~YourOrganisation/Campaigns/~~DescriptiveCampaignName/Vote]] must be properly set up to receive [[Direct Votes]] to gain more weight for the campaign.		[[Campaign:DescriptiveCampaignName/Vote]] must be properly set up to receive [[Direct Votes]] to gain more weight for the campaign.

	All the indirect votes of the organisation running the campaign are automatically credited to their own campaigns thus you cannot vote for other campaigns in the same campaign category as the campaigns you are running.		All the indirect votes of the organisation running the campaign are automatically credited to their own campaigns thus you cannot vote for other campaigns in the same campaign category as the campaigns you are running.
Line 59:		Line 59:
	Any Virtual Groups you join in with other organisations automatically get your votes in the categories they campaign in. It is up to organisations to make sure they aren't accidentally running multiple campaigns in one campaign category due to being part of virtual groups. This will be enforced.		Any Virtual Groups you join in with other organisations automatically get your votes in the categories they campaign in. It is up to organisations to make sure they aren't accidentally running multiple campaigns in one campaign category due to being part of virtual groups. This will be enforced.

	Forming a virtual group with other organisations with stakes in some campaign is used to gain more weight for the campaign. The ~~participants~~ share the responsibility of campaign statements truthfullness and assume the legal liabilities that may follow. Failure to do so may lead to the campaign being retired to avoid [[Consumerium:Itself]] being sued.		Forming a virtual group with other organisations with stakes in some campaign is used to gain more weight for the campaign. The campaigners indicated in [[Campaign:SomeCampaign/Campaigners]] share the responsibility of campaign statements truthfullness and assume the legal liabilities that may follow. Failure to do so may lead to the campaign being retired to avoid [[Consumerium:Itself]] being sued.

	Campaigns may or may not correspond with "real world" campaigns. Real world and "only Consumerium" campaigns may get different treatment/listing ie. they may be presented in separate listings.		Campaigns may or may not correspond with "real world" campaigns. Real world and "only Consumerium" campaigns may get different treatment/listing ie. they may be presented in separate listings.

	--[[User:Juxo\|Juxo]] 21:36, ~~20 Sep~~ 2004 (~~EEST~~)		--[[User:Juxo\|Juxo]] 18:16, 4 Nov 2004 (EET)