Faction - Revision history

Jukeboksi: Category:Wiki governance

2005-05-29T20:28:08Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:28, 29 May 2005
Line 1:		Line 1:
			[[Category:Wiki governance]]
	"I'll find a day to massacre them all, and raze their '''faction''' and their family..." - William Shakespeare, in Titus Andronicus		"I'll find a day to massacre them all, and raze their '''faction''' and their family..." - William Shakespeare, in Titus Andronicus

Support a unified GFDL Corpus at 16:58, 3 June 2004

2004-06-03T16:58:49Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:58, 3 June 2004
Line 19:		Line 19:
	Two factions are currently directly supported by the wiki software itself, those being [[developers]] and [[sysops]]. These have, as a consequence of the software itself, powers to label and identify others as [[vandals]] (those who damage or delete pages or insert erroneous assertions). There are also [[trolls]] (who annoy other users but may be doing so for legitimate political or social reasons, i.e. not simple vandals). ''It is rather hotly contested whether there is any one faction of trolls, whether trolls cooperate in factions already, etc..''		Two factions are currently directly supported by the wiki software itself, those being [[developers]] and [[sysops]]. These have, as a consequence of the software itself, powers to label and identify others as [[vandals]] (those who damage or delete pages or insert erroneous assertions). There are also [[trolls]] (who annoy other users but may be doing so for legitimate political or social reasons, i.e. not simple vandals). ''It is rather hotly contested whether there is any one faction of trolls, whether trolls cooperate in factions already, etc..''

	One way or another, like it or not, there is reference to these collective entities in all [[large public wiki]]s, and so there should be some formal support for creating arbitrary factions that actually represent the complexity of the social and political situation around the [[GFDL text corpus]] and the many [[point of view]] and [[user role]] differences involved.		One way or another, like it or not, there is reference to these collective entities in all [[large public wiki]]s, and so there should be some formal support for creating arbitrary factions that actually represent the complexity of the social and political situation around the [[GFDL text corpus]] and the many [[point of view]] and [[user role]] differences involved. Factions would require some [[accountability]], slowing down decisions on [[factionally defined terms]] like [[picket terms]] (like "pro-choice" and "baby murder" which you will never hear from "the other side"), and other [[political virtues]] and [[peacemaking]] tactics. Though it might just be one more thing to fight about.

	Three models of dealing with this have been proposed, and one attempted:		Three models of dealing with this have been proposed, and one attempted:

Support a unified GFDL Corpus at 16:43, 3 June 2004

2004-06-03T16:43:18Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:43, 3 June 2004
Line 4:		Line 4:

	In [[wiki management]], a '''faction''' is a '''mandatory clique''' to deal with [[alleged and collective identity]] problems that can't otherwise be sorted out without serious [[privacy]] problems, e.g. authorizing [[outing]]. The [[Wikipedia Red Faction]] is the most obvious declared public example.		In [[wiki management]], a '''faction''' is a '''mandatory clique''' to deal with [[alleged and collective identity]] problems that can't otherwise be sorted out without serious [[privacy]] problems, e.g. authorizing [[outing]]. The [[Wikipedia Red Faction]] is the most obvious declared public example.

			The difference between a faction and an [[interwiki identity standard]] is that you yourself decide to assert a common identity with the latter, but with a faction, it would be others telling you "please go deal with "others of your kind" and come back when we can understand you, if ever." ;-)

	Factions already exist as a group of users sharing a single account or using [[anonymous proxy]] services to reuse [[IP number]]s and appear to be just one persistent [[troll]] or something. This can actually work better for some things than any [[permission-based model]], but it gives an edge to those who have figured out how to do it reliably. It also makes it hard for any limits to be put on such activity.		Factions already exist as a group of users sharing a single account or using [[anonymous proxy]] services to reuse [[IP number]]s and appear to be just one persistent [[troll]] or something. This can actually work better for some things than any [[permission-based model]], but it gives an edge to those who have figured out how to do it reliably. It also makes it hard for any limits to be put on such activity.

Support a unified GFDL Corpus at 15:38, 3 June 2004

2004-06-03T15:38:16Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:38, 3 June 2004
Line 25:		Line 25:
	* A [[faction system]] modelled on [[representative democracy]] as carried out in all democracies, where an edit stands or falls based on the willingness of some substantial faction of like-minded users to support it. These compete with other factions in a [[power structure]] to contain the more bureaucratic and police-like [[sysop power structure]]. This seems to have potential to simplify debate on extremely contentious issues in the same way that parties do so in countries.		* A [[faction system]] modelled on [[representative democracy]] as carried out in all democracies, where an edit stands or falls based on the willingness of some substantial faction of like-minded users to support it. These compete with other factions in a [[power structure]] to contain the more bureaucratic and police-like [[sysop power structure]]. This seems to have potential to simplify debate on extremely contentious issues in the same way that parties do so in countries.

	::<b><i>This is the proposal that probably most suits [[Consumerium:Itself]].</b></i>		::<b><i>This is the proposal that probably most suits [[Consumerium:Itself]].</i></b>

	* A [[phyle]] system similar to that described by [[Neal Stephenson]] in his book [[The Diamond Age]]. As Metaweb is overtly an implementation of the [[Young Lady's Illustrated Primer]] from that same book, it seems entirely likely and useful that it would attempt to implement this variation of the faction. A phyle differs from a faction in various ways but mostly that it is defines an [[etiquette]] of its own and discourages informal interaction with those of other phyles, and typically takes revenge in extralegal ways if it is seriously offended (unlike a faction which is expected to work through some common bureaucratic or electoral process). See [[Metaweb:phyle]] for more details on this.		* A [[phyle]] system similar to that described by [[Neal Stephenson]] in his book [[The Diamond Age]]. As Metaweb is overtly an implementation of the [[Young Lady's Illustrated Primer]] from that same book, it seems entirely likely and useful that it would attempt to implement this variation of the faction. A phyle differs from a faction in various ways but mostly that it is defines an [[etiquette]] of its own and discourages informal interaction with those of other phyles, and typically takes revenge in extralegal ways if it is seriously offended (unlike a faction which is expected to work through some common bureaucratic or electoral process). See [[Metaweb:phyle]] for more details on this.

	::<b><i>Because it implies Neal Stephenson's model, Metaweb will likely move in this direction, and attempt to model Stephenson's phyles as factions instead of letting them develop directly from [[politics as usual]].</b></i>		::<b><i>Because it implies Neal Stephenson's model, Metaweb will likely move in this direction, and attempt to model Stephenson's phyles as factions instead of letting them develop directly from [[politics as usual]].</i></b>

	''See [[Talk:faction]] for extensive discussions. It will be hard to agree on one definition of faction, so please review [[glossary]] in detail to see what you think of those generic ideas, and how a faction might define a lot of things differently.''		''See [[Talk:faction]] for extensive discussions. It will be hard to agree on one definition of faction, so please review [[glossary]] in detail to see what you think of those generic ideas, and how a faction might define a lot of things differently.''

Support a unified GFDL Corpus at 15:37, 3 June 2004

2004-06-03T15:37:43Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:37, 3 June 2004
Line 25:		Line 25:
	* A [[faction system]] modelled on [[representative democracy]] as carried out in all democracies, where an edit stands or falls based on the willingness of some substantial faction of like-minded users to support it. These compete with other factions in a [[power structure]] to contain the more bureaucratic and police-like [[sysop power structure]]. This seems to have potential to simplify debate on extremely contentious issues in the same way that parties do so in countries.		* A [[faction system]] modelled on [[representative democracy]] as carried out in all democracies, where an edit stands or falls based on the willingness of some substantial faction of like-minded users to support it. These compete with other factions in a [[power structure]] to contain the more bureaucratic and police-like [[sysop power structure]]. This seems to have potential to simplify debate on extremely contentious issues in the same way that parties do so in countries.

	:~~''''''~~This is the proposal that probably most suits Consumerium.~~''''''~~		::<b><i>This is the proposal that probably most suits [[Consumerium:Itself]].</b></i>

	* A [[phyle]] system similar to that described by [[Neal Stephenson]] in his book [[The Diamond Age]]. As Metaweb is overtly an implementation of the [[Young Lady's Illustrated Primer]] from that same book, it seems entirely likely and useful that it would attempt to implement this variation of the faction. A phyle differs from a faction in various ways but mostly that it is defines an [[etiquette]] of its own and discourages informal interaction with those of other phyles, and typically takes revenge in extralegal ways if it is seriously offended (unlike a faction which is expected to work through some common bureaucratic or electoral process). See [[Metaweb:phyle]] for more details on this.		* A [[phyle]] system similar to that described by [[Neal Stephenson]] in his book [[The Diamond Age]]. As Metaweb is overtly an implementation of the [[Young Lady's Illustrated Primer]] from that same book, it seems entirely likely and useful that it would attempt to implement this variation of the faction. A phyle differs from a faction in various ways but mostly that it is defines an [[etiquette]] of its own and discourages informal interaction with those of other phyles, and typically takes revenge in extralegal ways if it is seriously offended (unlike a faction which is expected to work through some common bureaucratic or electoral process). See [[Metaweb:phyle]] for more details on this.

	:~~''''''~~Because it implies Neal Stephenson's model, Metaweb will likely move in this direction, and attempt to model Stephenson's phyles as factions instead of letting them develop directly from [[politics as usual]].~~''''''~~		::<b><i>Because it implies Neal Stephenson's model, Metaweb will likely move in this direction, and attempt to model Stephenson's phyles as factions instead of letting them develop directly from [[politics as usual]].</b></i>

	''See [[Talk:faction]] for extensive discussions. It will be hard to agree on one definition of faction, so please review [[glossary]] in detail to see what you think of those generic ideas, and how a faction might define a lot of things differently.''		''See [[Talk:faction]] for extensive discussions. It will be hard to agree on one definition of faction, so please review [[glossary]] in detail to see what you think of those generic ideas, and how a faction might define a lot of things differently.''

Support a unified GFDL Corpus at 15:36, 3 June 2004

2004-06-03T15:36:34Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:36, 3 June 2004
Line 14:		Line 14:

	Factions exist to acknowledge, limit, and channel various aspects of the [[self-interested fork problem]]. By anticipating [[factionally defined]] terms in the [[Consumerium License]], we make it easier for factions to define their own [[Consortium license]] as a sub-license of our own [[parametric license]].		Factions exist to acknowledge, limit, and channel various aspects of the [[self-interested fork problem]]. By anticipating [[factionally defined]] terms in the [[Consumerium License]], we make it easier for factions to define their own [[Consortium license]] as a sub-license of our own [[parametric license]].

			Two factions are currently directly supported by the wiki software itself, those being [[developers]] and [[sysops]]. These have, as a consequence of the software itself, powers to label and identify others as [[vandals]] (those who damage or delete pages or insert erroneous assertions). There are also [[trolls]] (who annoy other users but may be doing so for legitimate political or social reasons, i.e. not simple vandals). ''It is rather hotly contested whether there is any one faction of trolls, whether trolls cooperate in factions already, etc..''

			One way or another, like it or not, there is reference to these collective entities in all [[large public wiki]]s, and so there should be some formal support for creating arbitrary factions that actually represent the complexity of the social and political situation around the [[GFDL text corpus]] and the many [[point of view]] and [[user role]] differences involved.

			Three models of dealing with this have been proposed, and one attempted:

			* A [[GodKing]] who simply serves as the court of last resort, "master of truth and justice" ([[Michel Foucault]]'s term for the role of the Western academic), and is probably trusted by, or is, "the owner of" a [[GFDL corpus access provider]]. This is used at [[Wikimedia]]. It has had some success in getting a lot of text contributed. It seems to be less successful in getting rid of [[systemic bias]] or removing irreponsible sysops. Also, few GodKings speak every natural language! Some suggest that a GodKing doing nothing is one of the best models, called lazy tyranny, and that it is inaction rather than action that has led to the success of Wikipedia so far.

			* A [[faction system]] modelled on [[representative democracy]] as carried out in all democracies, where an edit stands or falls based on the willingness of some substantial faction of like-minded users to support it. These compete with other factions in a [[power structure]] to contain the more bureaucratic and police-like [[sysop power structure]]. This seems to have potential to simplify debate on extremely contentious issues in the same way that parties do so in countries.

			:''''''This is the proposal that probably most suits Consumerium.''''''

			* A [[phyle]] system similar to that described by [[Neal Stephenson]] in his book [[The Diamond Age]]. As Metaweb is overtly an implementation of the [[Young Lady's Illustrated Primer]] from that same book, it seems entirely likely and useful that it would attempt to implement this variation of the faction. A phyle differs from a faction in various ways but mostly that it is defines an [[etiquette]] of its own and discourages informal interaction with those of other phyles, and typically takes revenge in extralegal ways if it is seriously offended (unlike a faction which is expected to work through some common bureaucratic or electoral process). See [[Metaweb:phyle]] for more details on this.

			:''''''Because it implies Neal Stephenson's model, Metaweb will likely move in this direction, and attempt to model Stephenson's phyles as factions instead of letting them develop directly from [[politics as usual]].''''''

	''See [[Talk:faction]] for extensive discussions. It will be hard to agree on one definition of faction, so please review [[glossary]] in detail to see what you think of those generic ideas, and how a faction might define a lot of things differently.''		''See [[Talk:faction]] for extensive discussions. It will be hard to agree on one definition of faction, so please review [[glossary]] in detail to see what you think of those generic ideas, and how a faction might define a lot of things differently.''

142.177.92.38: +Wikipedia Red Faction

2004-05-29T17:39:01Z

+Wikipedia Red Faction

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:39, 29 May 2004
Line 3:		Line 3:
	One good [[user-land]] definition of a '''faction''' is "those who disagree violently with others, but only non-violently with each other."		One good [[user-land]] definition of a '''faction''' is "those who disagree violently with others, but only non-violently with each other."

	In [[wiki management]], a '''faction''' is a '''mandatory clique''' to deal with [[alleged and collective identity]] problems that can't otherwise be sorted out without serious [[privacy]] problems, e.g. authorizing [[outing]].		In [[wiki management]], a '''faction''' is a '''mandatory clique''' to deal with [[alleged and collective identity]] problems that can't otherwise be sorted out without serious [[privacy]] problems, e.g. authorizing [[outing]]. The [[Wikipedia Red Faction]] is the most obvious declared public example.

	Factions already exist as a group of users sharing a single account or using [[anonymous proxy]] services to reuse [[IP number]]s and appear to be just one persistent [[troll]] or something. This can actually work better for some things than any [[permission-based model]], but it gives an edge to those who have figured out how to do it reliably. It also makes it hard for any limits to be put on such activity.		Factions already exist as a group of users sharing a single account or using [[anonymous proxy]] services to reuse [[IP number]]s and appear to be just one persistent [[troll]] or something. This can actually work better for some things than any [[permission-based model]], but it gives an edge to those who have figured out how to do it reliably. It also makes it hard for any limits to be put on such activity.

142.177.114.120 at 17:50, 14 April 2004

2004-04-14T17:50:39Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:50, 14 April 2004
Line 17:		Line 17:
	''See [[Talk:faction]] for extensive discussions. It will be hard to agree on one definition of faction, so please review [[glossary]] in detail to see what you think of those generic ideas, and how a faction might define a lot of things differently.''		''See [[Talk:faction]] for extensive discussions. It will be hard to agree on one definition of faction, so please review [[glossary]] in detail to see what you think of those generic ideas, and how a faction might define a lot of things differently.''

	''See also [http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=Metaweb:faction en:Metaweb:faction]. Consumerium ~~has~~ more need to identify factions than Metaweb, so we may lead them in this regard.''		''See [http://www.ouranswer.org/wiki/index.php/OurAnswer:faction en:OurAnswer:faction] for a similar '''faction''' system for a highly political project. [[Disinfopedia]], also very politically focused, is declining for failing to have such a system.''

			''See also [http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=Metaweb:faction en:Metaweb:faction]. Consumerium and OurAnswer have more need to identify factions than Metaweb, so we may lead them in this regard.''

	''See [http://recyclopedia.info/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=Recyclopedia:faction en:Recyclopedia:faction] and [http://recyclopedia.info/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=Recyclopedia:direct_democracy en:Recyclopedia:direct_democracy] for a proposal to deal much more effectively with [[community point of view]] bias.''		''See [http://recyclopedia.info/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=Recyclopedia:faction en:Recyclopedia:faction] and [http://recyclopedia.info/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=Recyclopedia:direct_democracy en:Recyclopedia:direct_democracy] for a proposal to deal much more effectively with [[community point of view]] bias.''

142.177.93.91 at 21:16, 27 March 2004

2004-03-27T21:16:17Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:16, 27 March 2004
Line 3:		Line 3:
	One good [[user-land]] definition of a '''faction''' is "those who disagree violently with others, but only non-violently with each other."		One good [[user-land]] definition of a '''faction''' is "those who disagree violently with others, but only non-violently with each other."

	~~The closest approximation in the~~ [[~~geek-net~~]] ~~universe~~ is ~~however~~ a group of users sharing a single account or using [[anonymous proxy]] services to reuse [[IP number]]s and appear to be just one persistent [[troll]] or something. This can actually work better for some things than any [[permission-based model]], but it gives an edge to those who have figured out how to do it reliably. It also makes it hard for any limits to be put on such activity.		In [[wiki management]], a '''faction''' is a '''mandatory clique''' to deal with [[alleged and collective identity]] problems that can't otherwise be sorted out without serious [[privacy]] problems, e.g. authorizing [[outing]].

			Factions already exist as a group of users sharing a single account or using [[anonymous proxy]] services to reuse [[IP number]]s and appear to be just one persistent [[troll]] or something. This can actually work better for some things than any [[permission-based model]], but it gives an edge to those who have figured out how to do it reliably. It also makes it hard for any limits to be put on such activity.

	So, there may be user groups that are answerable only to each other and not to the management, which only manages the conflicts between factions, rather like it also tries to stay out of [[conflicts between users]] and just play referee:		So, there may be user groups that are answerable only to each other and not to the management, which only manages the conflicts between factions, rather like it also tries to stay out of [[conflicts between users]] and just play referee:
Line 15:		Line 17:
	''See [[Talk:faction]] for extensive discussions. It will be hard to agree on one definition of faction, so please review [[glossary]] in detail to see what you think of those generic ideas, and how a faction might define a lot of things differently.''		''See [[Talk:faction]] for extensive discussions. It will be hard to agree on one definition of faction, so please review [[glossary]] in detail to see what you think of those generic ideas, and how a faction might define a lot of things differently.''

	''See also [http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=Metaweb:faction Metaweb:faction]. Consumerium has more need to identify factions than Metaweb, so we may lead them in this regard.''		''See also [http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=Metaweb:faction en:Metaweb:faction]. Consumerium has more need to identify factions than Metaweb, so we may lead them in this regard.''

			''See [http://recyclopedia.info/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=Recyclopedia:faction en:Recyclopedia:faction] and [http://recyclopedia.info/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=Recyclopedia:direct_democracy en:Recyclopedia:direct_democracy] for a proposal to deal much more effectively with [[community point of view]] bias.''

142.177.108.207 at 23:08, 24 February 2004

2004-02-24T23:08:58Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:08, 24 February 2004
Line 1:		Line 1:
	"I'll find a day to massacre them all, and raze their '''faction''' and their family..." - William Shakespeare, in Titus Andronicus		"I'll find a day to massacre them all, and raze their '''faction''' and their family..." - William Shakespeare, in Titus Andronicus

	One good definition of a '''faction''' is "those who disagree violently with others, but only non-violently with each other."		One good [[user-land]] definition of a '''faction''' is "those who disagree violently with others, but only non-violently with each other."

			The closest approximation in the [[geek-net]] universe is however a group of users sharing a single account or using [[anonymous proxy]] services to reuse [[IP number]]s and appear to be just one persistent [[troll]] or something. This can actually work better for some things than any [[permission-based model]], but it gives an edge to those who have figured out how to do it reliably. It also makes it hard for any limits to be put on such activity.

			So, there may be user groups that are answerable only to each other and not to the management, which only manages the conflicts between factions, rather like it also tries to stay out of [[conflicts between users]] and just play referee:

	A '''faction''' competes with other factions, and has a [[tendency]] to view some things the same way - it may formally cooperate or list some [[values]] or principles. It has its own view of the [[glossary]]. Any [[funded troll]]s advancing a view implies there must be a faction with that view - maybe not one that [[Consumerium:Itself]] can see.		A '''faction''' competes with other factions, and has a [[tendency]] to view some things the same way - it may formally cooperate or list some [[values]] or principles. It has its own view of the [[glossary]]. Any [[funded troll]]s advancing a view implies there must be a faction with that view - maybe not one that [[Consumerium:Itself]] can see.