Consumerium development wiki - User contributions [en]

Wiki spam

2004-07-16T13:18:13Z

MattisManzel: links, removed boring sysop blah in the beginning (We know that now, thanks).

TrollTing

2004-07-15T17:54:39Z

MattisManzel:

This is the ting of the trolls. If you speak here the trolls will hear you.

The sequence ot this page is reverse to the common habbit in wiki. Write new text right under the bar please:

=== Speak up to the trolls ===

"then again a newbie arrives or a conflict emerges and all the dragging around about the correct position of the carrot starts again. Fataly there is a superordinate power in this mechanism which is superior to the work on the actual content. All keep an eye on the nose-carrot distance and compare it permanently to their own ideal conception." - [http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/community/MindTheGap MindTheGap].

:"Superordinate power"? The medium is the message. "Correct position of the carrot"? From [[God's Eye View|whose perspective]]? Newbies and conflict? See [[New Troll point of view]]. Either you optimize to favour newbies in conflict with [[sysop power structure|old trolls]], and grow, or you favour those who simply got there first, and watch the whole thing wither and die.

--------

I shall think and read about your reasons, thanks for the response. Gimme a bit o' time please, gnaw on, but [http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/community/MindTheGap MindTheGap]. 'Have no pics here, eh? How come? -- [[User:MattisManzel|MattisManzel]] 23:54, 3 Jul 2004 (EEST)

''Trolls don't remember agreeing to actually [[require response to hearsay|respond to hearsay]], rumours, nonsense here. But we will anyway just to be arbitrary (being trolls). Don't expect us to be polite, we are still trolls.''

Only [[sysop]]s "can support, strenghten and become part of a healthy and peacefull global HiveMind." [[Trolls]] prefer the present squabbling nasty [[biodiversity]] of the [[world tree]] with all its conflict and delights. We will gnaw on this "HiveMind" or "[[virtual community]]" until it bleeds to death. We will not join it. Let the sysops kill themselves trying to find and then enforce [[God's Eye View]]. Feh. Trolls know this view is not available to mere living creatures. Trolls seek only to make these [[no body]] entities less destructive to what is alive. Which includes, of course, we the trolls.

--------
Heya trolls, you wrote on CW:

"Accordingly, trolls will be the actual community, and the sysops merely the cops." I agree, "somehow". It's a bit surprising actually. The "somehow" is important. It means figuring out a.) who/what a troll is, b.) who/what a sysop is. About a.) you have been thinking about that here, I haven't had the time to read that yet, but I'll try to. I just started to realize what a troll is (and it takes long for me to read as it's in english). B.) A sysop. System operator. Not too much of a good term, as mostly too wide and not precise I think. You mean people, I guess to the very majority they are syspops or admins, who haven't understood wiki. This is very generaly spoken and in no way precise. I has to be thought about how a person with administrative rights - these will be ineviteable until wiki is completely decentralized - should act to in order to provide a sourrounding that can support, strenghten and become part of a healthy and peacefull global HiveMind.

Let's take it very cool. It will work out by far the best like that. -- [[User:MattisManzel|MattisManzel]] 19:00, 3 Jul 2004 (EEST)

You bore me, as you are not funny and as you aren't but repeating the same stuff over and over. You are not open, your Zauber sucks. Sorry, but I'll return to work with people who know how to groove as, yes, I'm still -- [[User:MattisManzel|MattisManzel]] 09:10, 5 Jul 2004 (EEST) (Why don't you just give it a try with mini-golf instead?)

::How typical of a [[sysop]] to advise [[golf]] as a solution! At least it was mini-golf that does not lead to farmers being killed and pesticides ruining land. But a thirst for golf will eventually lead to a thirst for blood, it is imperialism incarnate. Rape itself may be merely a form of golf.

See how your things get deleted on CW? Sad, but I can do nothing about that. You have no face and no mouth, that's the only problem. It is your way that makes it impossible for anyone to hear you. We wanna jam. We're best when we jam. But we can't jam with you. You could right now in this very moment make a real nage page on CW, even put a real pic of you on it if you feel like, say "Hello, I'm the troll from before, but anyhow. I do a little this and that." and it all would be completetly different. People'd say: "Hi RealName, you really got on our nerves, Welcome on CW. But you won't. You are too soaked with your sadness, you are too weak and you are too ineffective. I'm sorry about it.

: I'm a different troll and I don't know what you are talking about. But sure you want to prescribe how people should cooperate with your system. Other communities only ask for a name, you ask for an image. Other communities only ask for polite cooperation, you ask for Zauber and a jam-like resonance. Accept that our cooperation is not-cooperation and a necessary mirror to your rediculous expectations of behaviour.

:: I'm a different troll too and you are right to reject this demand for you to expose your bodily identity. It is enough to know you are [[some body]] and not [[no body]]. Give them nothing, and continue to proclaim [[troll pride]]. Well put: "our cooperation is not-cooperation and a necessary mirror to your ridiculous expectations of behaviour." We, [[trolls]], will not enter their [[iron cage]] of "productivity", nor will we create a consumer-friendly image. We remain trolls! And gnaw at the roots of the [[world tree]] they destroy with their golf pesticides.

Well I overread the "ridiculous" (ridere, to laugh in italian, your english is very good, better than mine, but you're neither a native speaker, TrollyDear, are you?), I accept the rest. Yes, I have an idea about what works and what not. I have an idea how to shape this world to make it work better.

::All [[sysop]]s have such ideas. All sysops are wrong. See [[God's Eye View]].

::all sysops have eyes. all sysops are wrong. like the sysops all trolls have eyes. so all trolls are wrong.

I have an idea about the world-tree.

::Ideas are bad. Ideas destroy. Ideas about the world tree lead to its being poisoned. One must have only reverence for the world tree and compassion for all its creatures. Including even the most despised of those creatures: [[trolls]]. One of your ideas is to cut the world tree down to make room for more golf.

And I try to behave in a way, and I look out if it is effective and I think about how could I change it to make it become more effective. I do it openly so that people can see it, and I hope that people think: "Hey, this works - I'll try it that way too." But I do not prescribe anything to anybody, all I give is an example and recommendations. Nobody has to follow these. Nobody has to, everybody can - that's wiki. Tell me when you find things I wrote where this does not apply, this is most important for me to know. A pic and Zauber is the least to ask for when into effective wikiwork (the latter counts - the pic is helpful). "Butter bei die Fische!", as we say in German. Or do you want this to take for ever and a day?

::You do not get it, do you? "Effective wikiwork" begins with the overthrow of the [[sysop power structure]] in favour of the [[New Troll point of view]] - it is only once new trolls are in charge, that [[wiki ideology]] can be destroyed and the mandate pursued. NEW trolls, those HONESTLY ATTRACTED BY THE [[wiki mission]]. Not the old trolls that started the wiki, because they NEUROTICALLY THOUGHT THEY WERE THE BEST PEOPLE TO CONTROL the wiki mission. By definition the new trolls are sincere, while the old trolls simply seek to retain power.

PS. I do not really favor the harsh tone between us, it's ok for the beginning though. Fist jams usually go like that. Part of my aggression (the socalled evil) btw is due to my insufficient and slooow reading english. Sorry for that, we'll get it done I guess. I like your precise language, I like very much how nordic mystic is woven in here.
-- [[User:MattisManzel|MattisManzel]] 15:54, 5 Jul 2004 (EEST)

::Liking it is not enough. You must live it. Abandon your username! Use any anonymous proxy that will render your identity nebulous! Become a [[troll]]!

If you become a troll first, alright. -- [[User:MattisManzel|MattisManzel]] 23:10, 5 Jul 2004 (EEST)

::True trolls are made by [[troll-formative injustice]] and maintained by [[anti-troll bias]].

::: Hey, why 2 u want 2 force Madthis into using old-fashioned trolling strategies? Any troll is free 2 use the ways he likes! Who are u 2 prescribe other trolls their behaviour? Isn't he a newer troll than u?

::::He has not yet admitted that he is a [[troll]]! That is quite important. When he does, he may [[race to the bottom|lead us]], and perhaps in time even become [[Lowest Troll]]!

::: When had a troll evR 2 admit 2 be a troll? When did a troll? It was always a label attached 2 us 2 hurt us. Now we may be proud of the label but does this mean we have 2 admit something? I don't admit nothing. ** T2R

Well, it's quite simple. You just cut a hole in your stomach like I did and you can eat as much gryt as you want to. Give it a try. -- [[User:MattisManzel|MattisManzel]] 19:45, 6 Jul 2004 (EEST)

Heya trolls,

There are postings called "spam" pretty all over in wikilandia. I tried to interlink some wikispam discussions and proposed a SpamBox/WikiSpamBusters solution. I'd be interested to hear what you think of it. http://wiki.s23.org/wiki.pl?WikiSpam. More generally your view on spam in the wiki process interests me. -- [[User:MattisManzel|MattisManzel]] 20:54, 15 Jul 2004 (EEST)

World tree

2004-07-03T21:12:45Z

MattisManzel:

Biodiversity

2004-07-03T21:06:37Z

MattisManzel: 9 or 12?

TrollTing

2004-07-03T20:54:18Z

MattisManzel: Mtg

This is the ting of the trolls. If you speak here the trolls will hear you.

The sequence ot this page is reverse to the common habbit in wiki. Write new text right under the bar please:
=== Speak up to the trolls ===

--------
[new::]
I shall think and read about your reasons, thanks for the response. Gimme a bit o' time please, gnaw on, but [http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/community/MindTheGap MindTheGap]. 'Have no pics here, eh? How come? -- [[User:MattisManzel|MattisManzel]] 23:54, 3 Jul 2004 (EEST)

''Trolls don't remember agreeing to actually [[require response to hearsay|respond to hearsay]], rumours, nonsense here. But we will anyway just to be arbitrary (being trolls). Don't expect us to be polite, we are still trolls.''

Only [[sysop]]s "can support, strenghten and become part of a healthy and peacefull global HiveMind." [[Trolls]] prefer the present squabbling nasty [[biodiversity]] of the [[world tree]] with all its conflict and delights. We will gnaw on this "HiveMind" or "[[virtual community]]" until it bleeds to death. We will not join it. Let the sysops kill themselves trying to find and then enforce [[God's Eye View]]. Feh. Trolls know this view is not available to mere living creatures. Trolls seek only to make these [[no body]] entities less destructive to what is alive. Which includes, of course, we the trolls.

--------
Heya trolls, you wrote on CW:

"Accordingly, trolls will be the actual community, and the sysops merely the cops." I agree, "somehow". It's a bit surprising actually. The "somehow" is important. It means figuring out a.) who/what a troll is, b.) who/what a sysop is. About a.) you have been thinking about that here, I haven't had the time to read that yet, but I'll try to. I just started to realize what a troll is (and it takes long for me to read as it's in english). B.) A sysop. System operator. Not too much of a good term, as mostly too wide and not precise I think. You mean people, I guess to the very majority they are syspops or admins, who haven't understood wiki. This is very generaly spoken and in no way precise. I has to be thought about how a person with administrative rights - these will be ineviteable until wiki is completely decentralized - should act to in order to provide a sourrounding that can support, strenghten and become part of a healthy and peacefull global HiveMind.

Let's take it very cool. It will work out by far the best like that. -- [[User:MattisManzel|MattisManzel]] 19:00, 3 Jul 2004 (EEST)

User talk:MattisManzel

2004-07-03T16:01:49Z

MattisManzel:

Hi, so you are real trolls, are you? Not what we call difficult participants on CommunityWiki? I hope so, franckly. -- MattisManzel

:Only [[sysop]]s present actual difficulty, as only sysops have technological powers others don't have. Yes we are real [[troll]]s and gnaw at the roots of the [[world tree]]. For the sysops we wish only [[Ragnarok]]. Here we have no sysops only a [[Lowest Troll]] who we trust to troll back at us for a very long time before banning, and that only [[vandal]]s. We are all trolls really, and those with nuclear weapons are sysops.
----
Could you help out with http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Types_of_companies. It needs your language skills. --[[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 12:48, 4 Jun 2004 (EEST)

I miss the precise terms in German and the formatting is still cryptic to me here. Next time better. @SIG@
- doesn't work, ok -- MattisManzel
----
You should try <nowiki>~~~ for signature and ~~~~ for signature</nowiki> with date. Thanks for the effort still. --[[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 19:51, 10 Jun 2004 (EEST)

ok, cu. GFM #2 19th of june btw. see http://flashmob.wiki.taoriver.net/ [[User:MattisManzel|MattisManzel]] 12:01, 13 Jun 2004 (EEST)
----
Allright. There isn't really a break between GFM #2 and #3 and I do not have much time, no. It probably was a little stupid of me to provoke you here. There is a deal implied in it, as much as there was a deal implied, when teaching an Austrian the basic physics of skiing last autumn. You have to go downhills with the buddy when he should finally decide to. So no provoking without going all the way downhills. I was aware of this when I wrote my first lines here, but I was not aware of the other tasks that will come up to me, in particular I concidered flashmob dead by that time.
I see the recent nervous reactions on CW since "someone" showed up there, someone known from an obviously little fruitful interaction before on Meatball. I have not followed this one, having had several out-times of a couple of weeks during my last months of wikiwork. The Zauber on CW and on other wiki I work on is most important to me, actually my personal mood is pretty much linked to it. And there are others there who feel the same. These are my friends, I can really say so, they are indeed. So excuse me when I tell you something you do know as trolls: It makes me sad to see my friends sad (end of the emotional part).

I came to know wiki in August 03. I completely went into it from the very first moment and I eversince hardly use any other other platform for writing anymore. I had vagely heard about wikipedia before, but had never tried to write anything (paralysed years of virus-spoiled old OS on expensive dial-up connection had prevented that for me before last summer). When going on stage, you choose small clubs before going there in the madison square garden. Wikipedia always felt like a TRex for me. In addition the dry encyclodaedic concept never attracted me. Very fast I found myself deeply involved in small German wikis. I did not behave very nicely these days. Flashmob was still hot last autumn. When trying to support flashmob via wiki the first serious conflict arose and I lost almost all connection to where I'd been wikiwriting. I then toured wikilandia making wikihomepages (still a hobby of mine, I fear). Soon I got into Meatball, which I think is tremendous. There was all this elaborated stuff there, just completely amazing. No doubt that I absolutely wanted to take part of that. It was a strange mood there though, something was wrong with the local Zauber there these days. No idea. I still behaved not too nicely, though a lot better than before (also due to the fact that english is not my mothertongue). I was pretty provocative and pushed in a good deal of emotionality, and maybe it was due to that fact too that the waters started moving. CommunityWiki started as a fork of Meatball in November 03. I translated NoLeader to German with my Austrian friend while rushing downhills, it became one of the first CW pages. This was a concept I liked as it was open to make something grow. And it started and grew and grew and it still does. And we still have NoLeader on CW. We're better off without one. Due to the fact of being a centralized system (freenet is decentralized, wiki is centralized = wiki has to become like freenet) there are "sysop"-like people on CW, yes, this will be immanent to wiki as long as it doesn't get decentralized. Our "sysop" is the same person who put the original of NoLeaders on CW and offered several times to share his sysop-state with others. We actually did not need that, as he does the job most perfectly. I have no idea what horrors go on inside the TRex, maybe you made your experiences with sysops there and maybe your whole trollship origins from there. For me CW is the place with the less possible hierarchy on wiki today. It's this why I feel best there. Wiki unfortunately still needs people with more technical power. This will end when decentralising wiki. We are actually working on that too. We work on a lot of good stuff for wiki. A work like that takes good Zauber, it's stuck immediately when the Zauber is gone. A little bit it's like approaching dogs or little children. When they start barking or crying you've done something wrong. It's best then to make a step backwards and wait until they stop. Then try again. Thanks anyway for your real trolldom. And tell me when there is something to translate, please. I might have time for. I might as well have not, sure.

MetaBaby has the least hierarchic concept. Too good for now. I hate that all this beautful wild stuff is lost when being cancelled. Couldn't one make a kind of MetababyRecorder? Just one more button on Metababy. When you see something you like you press it and zack it's copied over to a regular wiki.

See "Yggdrasil" btw when you should read German ;)
http://de.geocities.com/mattismanzel/texte/yggdrasil.html

Ciao -- [[User:MattisManzel|MattisManzel]] 17:36, 30 Jun 2004 (EEST)

[[TrollTing]]

TrollTing

2004-07-03T16:00:34Z

MattisManzel:

This is the ting of the trolls. If you speak here the trolls will hear you.

The sequence ot this page is reverse to the common habbit in wiki. Write new text right under the bar please:
=== Speak up to the trolls ===
--------
Heya trolls, you wrote on CW:

"Accordingly, trolls will be the actual community, and the sysops merely the cops." I agree, "somehow". It's a bit surprising actually. The "somehow" is important. It means figuring out a.) who/what a troll is, b.) who/what a sysop is. About a.) you have been thinking about that here, I haven't had the time to read that yet, but I'll try to. I just started to realize what a troll is (and it takes long for me to read as it's in english). B.) A sysop. System operator. Not too much of a good term, as mostly too wide and not precise I think. You mean people, I guess to the very majority they are syspops or admins, who haven't understood wiki. This is very generaly spoken and in no way precise. I has to be thought about how a person with administrative rights - these will be ineviteable until wiki is completely decentralized - should act to in order to provide a sourrounding that can support, strenghten and become part of a healthy and peacefull global HiveMind.

Let's take it very cool. It will work out by far the best like that. -- [[User:MattisManzel|MattisManzel]] 19:00, 3 Jul 2004 (EEST)

2004-06-13T09:01:01Z

MattisManzel:

User talk:MattisManzel

2004-06-02T23:11:54Z

MattisManzel: I hope so, franckly.

Hi, so you are real trolls, are you? Not what we call difficult participants on CommunityWiki? I hope so, franckly. -- MattisManzel