Consumerium development wiki - User contributions [en]

User talk:Juxo

2004-03-16T08:16:40Z

DanKeshet: where should I start working on encyclopedia content?

User talk:N8chz

2004-03-12T20:55:54Z

DanKeshet: hi!

[http://geocities.com/n8chz/ Pubwan] is a nice set of links. Nice work. You should add [[Recyclopedia]] (a superset of [[Wikipedia]] that has a much better management paradigm) and [[Metaweb]] (working on new tools to process things like the [[Consumerium:intermediate page]], in fact that idea came from them), and other [[essential projects]] and [[interesting projects]] we have listed.

It would be really ideal if you created a bunch of articles on these topics in particular:

*[[appropriate technology]] - an issue we've got into here lately, see [[audio]] and [[Consumerium buying signal]] and [[User:DanKeshet/scratchpad]] and the debate over [[Hardware requirements]] and the [[terminal device]]s.

*initial pubwan offering - any good [[self-funding]] or [[pilot]] ideas? How can this grow into [[healthy signal infrastructure]] ?
*large scale cataloging of package deals - like [[buying coops]]? We call these [[faction]]s and support [[institutional buying criteria]] they share
*leveling the data mining playing field - we call this [[research wiki]]
*[[appliances]]
*[[community planning]]
*[[housing]]
*"environment" is something that should not exist, we are talking about specific [[comprehensive outcome]]s for various [[ecoregion]]s and species, and [[w:public bad]]s like [[deforestation]] or [[extinction]].
*[[trailer park]] and [[semi trailer]] are intriguing - like a book bus?
*recruiting the [[Consumerium:contributor]] - which you call "information volunteer"

Please, though, we have enough abstract terminology! We don't need to talk about "virtual objects" and other such non-terms here. We need if anything to focus on the concretes, so your input at [[Consumerium User Stories]], [[best cases]], etc., is welcomed particularly.

----
Hi N8chz,

Great to see you here. I've always been so happy to see your edits to voting systems articles on Wikipedia.

Peace,

[[User:DanKeshet|DanKeshet]]

User talk:Juxo

2004-03-12T20:32:51Z

DanKeshet: story of spindletop

User:DanKeshet/scratchpad

2004-03-12T08:06:12Z

DanKeshet:

My thoughts on Consumerium. If you have comments on them, please use the talk page, and don't comment inline.

1) This is a gigantically important and very cool idea. Many many people are willing to become moral consumers if they had the information available. This could be useful in a bunch of ways.

2) I don't want to carry or wear any sort of device with me to the supermarket or any other store. I don't want to pick up a device when I'm at the store (though maybe a book). I don't want to scan barcodes. I doubt many other people want these things either. As far as I'm concerned, these things are needless distractions from the one enormously difficult task: gathering the data. If somebody wants to think about them, that's fine. I just don't want to scan through all the discussion about the development of these in order to find out whether Dole treats their organic banana harvesters as bad as their conventional banana harvesters.

3) The trajectory that I see for this project is:

*to be filled in soon...

User:DanKeshet

2004-03-12T08:05:26Z

DanKeshet:

I live in [[w:Seattle, Washington]], USA.

URL: http://www.channel1.com/users/dkesh

Wikipedian since the early usemod days. See [[w:user:DanKeshet]]

[[user:DanKeshet/scratchpad]]

User:DanKeshet/scratchpad

2004-03-12T01:30:54Z

DanKeshet: My thoughts on Consumerium.

My thoughts on Consumerium. If you have comments on them, please use the talk page, and don't comment inline.

1) This is a gigantically important and very cool idea. Many many people are willing to become moral consumers if they had the information available. This could be useful in a bunch of ways.

2) I don't want to carry or wear any sort of device with me to the supermarket or any other store. I don't want to pick up a device when I'm at the store (though maybe a book). I don't want to scan barcodes. I doubt many other people want these things either. As far as I'm concerned, these things are needless distractions from the one enormously difficult task: gathering the data. If somebody wants to think about them, that's fine. I just don't want to scan through all this junk in order to find out whether Dole treats their organic banana harvesters as bad as their conventional banana harvesters.

3) The trajectory that I see for this project is:

*to be filled in soon...

Consumerium:Village pump

2004-03-12T00:15:40Z

DanKeshet:

<table align="right"><tr><td> [[Image:Village_pump.jpg]]</tr></td></table>
'''Hi and welcome to the Consumerium Village pump.'''

The purpose of this page is to ask questions about how we should go about things here and answering them.
----
This name is not good ihmo. There is nothing to buy and nothing to sell at a village pump. It is just a place to lose the soap. Please don't copy the english wiki for the sake of it.

:Why not copy the 'pedia, it'll make people coming from [[Wikipedia]] feel much more home quickly.

:::This is a good reason NOT to copy it, considering that we get Lir and Angela coming over... not the good Wikipedia users.

My [[Consumerium:Market Place]] was a much better one.
:That name would indicate there is something for sale there. I've been thinking that once we have some preliminary [[XML]] ready, then we have to set up [[Consumerium:Pseudore]] (Consumerium PSEUDo StORE), a sort of game or playground where we can test the functionality of our markup and simulate different situations eg. handling parties who wish to input [[Disinformation]] to undermine the [[Integrity]] and [[Reputation]] of the system. I'll iterate on this once it's time. [[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 14:43 Jun 15, 2003 (EEST)

::We already had one such incident, the arrival of a party who inputs disinformation and commits [[sysop vandalism]] at another [[large public wiki]], who had to be driven off. It would be good to deal with these, as you suggest, in a more disciplined and systematic role-playing way. Trolls do not want to have to do it the old-fashioned way. THe time may have come for this.

Sigh. No one ever listen to a poor House Elf :-(

:::Trolls do!

----

Hello consumerists. I'm not sure who's in charge around here, but whoever it is, read this. Everyone else, go away ;)

:Typical Wikipedian fascist attitude.

I am a Wikipedia developer, and we're trying to get all system administrators who are using our software to join the newly-created MediaWiki-l mailing list. We will use this list to tell you about bugs, new releases, security problems, etc. In particular, there is a minor security flaw which we are working to fix at the moment. We expect the volume of this list to be very low.

To subscribe, enter your details at:

http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l

:Thanks, I'll do that.

By the way, not everyone calls their Q&A page the village pump. The French Wikipedia has a "bistro" for example. -- [[User:Tim Starling|Tim Starling]] 11:49, 13 Oct 2003 (EEST)

:Sure. Maybe [[Consumerium:Irrigation hub]] would have been a better name [[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 12:28, 13 Oct 2003 (EEST)

::Propose [[Consumerium:Party]]. That can be like a garden party, or like a political party. Make sense?

:::Umm... No?

::::You don't like parties?

----
Heh. I was in the process of starting the exact same thing, only I was going to call it consumerpedia. Most excellent. I'm glad to find like-minded people. [[User:DanKeshet|DanKeshet]]

:Maybe the name consumerpedia makes sense for the ordinary end user interface to the [[Consumerium:intermediate page]]s? It would make sense to specialize the user interface for those doing such lookup - maybe we should keep using [[mediawiki]] or [[GetWiki]] for that purpose. But see [[Consumerium Service access]], this is only one of several types of access. And the [[Signal Wiki]] is hopefully stuff that we can truly rely on, that has gone through some quite serious vetting.

After extensive reading, I understand this place to be for the purposes of planning an unbelievably large-scale project. I do not mean to discourage you when I say that this sounds profoundly overengineered to me. It disappoints me greatly to say that, because I was very excited to first see this place. But after reading at least a dozen pages, I have no confidence that I can be of any use here. I wish you all good luck. If any of you have a desire to put together a much simpler pilot project, please contact me. My email address consists of the first letter of my first name, the first four letters of my last name, and @channel1.com. peace, [[User:DanKeshet|DanKeshet]]

:The original time-scale for implementing the planned [[Features]], which are way ambitious as I've stated from the begining of this project on, has in my mind been 10 to 15 years, out of which two years have now elapsed, with the [[Goals and means of Consumerium|mission statement]] online. All help is appreciated and yes, we will have to start with a small pilot. --[[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 22:44, 11 Mar 2004 (EET)

::You know what? Let me make some edits at [[user:DanKeshet/scratchpad]] and see whether my vision fits with yours. [[User:DanKeshet|DanKeshet]] 02:14, 12 Mar 2004 (EET)

<sub>The logo is from [[w:Wikipedia:Village Pump]]</sub>

Consumerium:Village pump

2004-03-12T00:14:45Z

DanKeshet:

<table align="right"><tr><td> [[Image:Village_pump.jpg]]</tr></td></table>
'''Hi and welcome to the Consumerium Village pump.'''

The purpose of this page is to ask questions about how we should go about things here and answering them.
----
This name is not good ihmo. There is nothing to buy and nothing to sell at a village pump. It is just a place to lose the soap. Please don't copy the english wiki for the sake of it.

:Why not copy the 'pedia, it'll make people coming from [[Wikipedia]] feel much more home quickly.

:::This is a good reason NOT to copy it, considering that we get Lir and Angela coming over... not the good Wikipedia users.

My [[Consumerium:Market Place]] was a much better one.
:That name would indicate there is something for sale there. I've been thinking that once we have some preliminary [[XML]] ready, then we have to set up [[Consumerium:Pseudore]] (Consumerium PSEUDo StORE), a sort of game or playground where we can test the functionality of our markup and simulate different situations eg. handling parties who wish to input [[Disinformation]] to undermine the [[Integrity]] and [[Reputation]] of the system. I'll iterate on this once it's time. [[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 14:43 Jun 15, 2003 (EEST)

::We already had one such incident, the arrival of a party who inputs disinformation and commits [[sysop vandalism]] at another [[large public wiki]], who had to be driven off. It would be good to deal with these, as you suggest, in a more disciplined and systematic role-playing way. Trolls do not want to have to do it the old-fashioned way. THe time may have come for this.

Sigh. No one ever listen to a poor House Elf :-(

:::Trolls do!

----

Hello consumerists. I'm not sure who's in charge around here, but whoever it is, read this. Everyone else, go away ;)

:Typical Wikipedian fascist attitude.

I am a Wikipedia developer, and we're trying to get all system administrators who are using our software to join the newly-created MediaWiki-l mailing list. We will use this list to tell you about bugs, new releases, security problems, etc. In particular, there is a minor security flaw which we are working to fix at the moment. We expect the volume of this list to be very low.

To subscribe, enter your details at:

http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l

:Thanks, I'll do that.

By the way, not everyone calls their Q&A page the village pump. The French Wikipedia has a "bistro" for example. -- [[User:Tim Starling|Tim Starling]] 11:49, 13 Oct 2003 (EEST)

:Sure. Maybe [[Consumerium:Irrigation hub]] would have been a better name [[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 12:28, 13 Oct 2003 (EEST)

::Propose [[Consumerium:Party]]. That can be like a garden party, or like a political party. Make sense?

:::Umm... No?

::::You don't like parties?

----
Heh. I was in the process of starting the exact same thing, only I was going to call it consumerpedia. Most excellent. I'm glad to find like-minded people. [[User:DanKeshet|DanKeshet]]

:Maybe the name consumerpedia makes sense for the ordinary end user interface to the [[Consumerium:intermediate page]]s? It would make sense to specialize the user interface for those doing such lookup - maybe we should keep using [[mediawiki]] or [[GetWiki]] for that purpose. But see [[Consumerium Service access]], this is only one of several types of access. And the [[Signal Wiki]] is hopefully stuff that we can truly rely on, that has gone through some quite serious vetting.

After extensive reading, I understand this place to be for the purposes of planning an unbelievably large-scale project. I do not mean to discourage you when I say that this sounds profoundly overengineered to me. It disappoints me greatly to say that, because I was very excited to first see this place. But after reading at least a dozen pages, I have no confidence that I can be of any use here. I wish you all good luck. If any of you have a desire to put together a much simpler pilot project, please contact me. My email address consists of the first letter of my first name, the first four letters of my last name, and @channel1.com. peace, [[User:DanKeshet|DanKeshet]]

:The original time-scale for implementing the planned [[Features]], which are way ambitious as I've stated from the begining of this project on, has in my mind been 10 to 15 years, out of which two years have now elapsed, with the [[Goals and means of Consumerium|mission statement]] online. All help is appreciated and yes, we will have to start with a small pilot. --[[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 22:44, 11 Mar 2004 (EET)

::You know what? Let me make some edits at [[user:DanKeshet/scratchbox]] and see whether my vision fits with yours. [[User:DanKeshet|DanKeshet]] 02:14, 12 Mar 2004 (EET)

<sub>The logo is from [[w:Wikipedia:Village Pump]]</sub>

Consumerium:Village pump

2004-03-11T20:18:20Z

DanKeshet:

<table align="right"><tr><td> [[Image:Village_pump.jpg]]</tr></td></table>
'''Hi and welcome to the Consumerium Village pump.'''

The purpose of this page is to ask questions about how we should go about things here and answering them.
----
This name is not good ihmo. There is nothing to buy and nothing to sell at a village pump. It is just a place to lose the soap. Please don't copy the english wiki for the sake of it.

:Why not copy the 'pedia, it'll make people coming from [[Wikipedia]] feel much more home quickly.

:::This is a good reason NOT to copy it, considering that we get Lir and Angela coming over... not the good Wikipedia users.

My [[Consumerium:Market Place]] was a much better one.
:That name would indicate there is something for sale there. I've been thinking that once we have some preliminary [[XML]] ready, then we have to set up [[Consumerium:Pseudore]] (Consumerium PSEUDo StORE), a sort of game or playground where we can test the functionality of our markup and simulate different situations eg. handling parties who wish to input [[Disinformation]] to undermine the [[Integrity]] and [[Reputation]] of the system. I'll iterate on this once it's time. [[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 14:43 Jun 15, 2003 (EEST)

::We already had one such incident, the arrival of a party who inputs disinformation and commits [[sysop vandalism]] at another [[large public wiki]], who had to be driven off. It would be good to deal with these, as you suggest, in a more disciplined and systematic role-playing way. Trolls do not want to have to do it the old-fashioned way. THe time may have come for this.

Sigh. No one ever listen to a poor House Elf :-(

:::Trolls do!

----

Hello consumerists. I'm not sure who's in charge around here, but whoever it is, read this. Everyone else, go away ;)

:Typical Wikipedian fascist attitude.

I am a Wikipedia developer, and we're trying to get all system administrators who are using our software to join the newly-created MediaWiki-l mailing list. We will use this list to tell you about bugs, new releases, security problems, etc. In particular, there is a minor security flaw which we are working to fix at the moment. We expect the volume of this list to be very low.

To subscribe, enter your details at:

http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l

:Thanks, I'll do that.

By the way, not everyone calls their Q&A page the village pump. The French Wikipedia has a "bistro" for example. -- [[User:Tim Starling|Tim Starling]] 11:49, 13 Oct 2003 (EEST)

:Sure. Maybe [[Consumerium:Irrigation hub]] would have been a better name [[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 12:28, 13 Oct 2003 (EEST)

::Propose [[Consumerium:Party]]. That can be like a garden party, or like a political party. Make sense?

:::Umm... No?

::::You don't like parties?

----
Heh. I was in the process of starting the exact same thing, only I was going to call it consumerpedia. Most excellent. I'm glad to find like-minded people. [[User:DanKeshet|DanKeshet]]

:Maybe the name consumerpedia makes sense for the ordinary end user interface to the [[Consumerium:intermediate page]]s? It would make sense to specialize the user interface for those doing such lookup - maybe we should keep using [[mediawiki]] or [[GetWiki]] for that purpose. But see [[Consumerium Service access]], this is only one of several types of access. And the [[Signal Wiki]] is hopefully stuff that we can truly rely on, that has gone through some quite serious vetting.

After extensive reading, I understand this place to be for the purposes of planning an unbelievably large-scale project. I do not mean to discourage you when I say that this sounds profoundly overengineered to me. It disappoints me greatly to say that, because I was very excited to first see this place. But after reading at least a dozen pages, I have no confidence that I can be of any use here. I wish you all good luck. If any of you have a desire to put together a much simpler pilot project, please contact me. My email address consists of the first letter of my first name, the first four letters of my last name, and @channel1.com. peace, [[User:DanKeshet|DanKeshet]]

<sub>The logo is from [[w:Wikipedia:Village Pump]]</sub>

Talk:Main Page

2004-03-10T20:08:10Z

DanKeshet: overwhelmed

Hi! Is the Consumerium software still being developed? The service seems rather unhelpful right now (i.e. it's all links to internal Consumerium documentation).

:That's because this is just a prototype [[Research Wiki]] with some [[Development Wiki]] functions right now. Which used to be better explained on that main page (see below for the older text which explained it thoroughly, perahps just a bit of that text needs to go back on the main page).

I guess if it were up to me, I'd make no mods to the software at present, and instead make a document saying:

*Consumerium standard wiki format:
**Consensus - Summarizes majority user opinions, with documented sources.
**Criticisms of X - Arguments against product/company.
**Praise for X - Arguments for product/company.

Then let users fill in content and watch Consumerium explode like a nuclear chain reaction. That's what I suggest. -- Connelly Barnes

:Call this a [[Consumerium:intermediate page format]] because it will be sucked in by other non-wiki (or at least non-[[mediawiki]]) software to generate the [[Consumerium buying signal]]. [[Metaweb]] uses the terminology [http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=Metaweb:intermediate_page_format 'intermediate page format'] and perhaps we can use what they eventually use, to suck it in and manipulate it.

::This is an interesting simplification from the previous and should be investigated. As noted in [[Consumerium:Retrospection]] we have drifted steadily from strong checking in data-entry and automatic aggregation of information to ongoing peer-review and lot's of manual checking and compositing. --[[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 11:10, 1 Mar 2004 (EET)
-----

The intro essay is the only thing that makes sense on this page.

:So, of course, sysops delete it, and trolls restore it.

Thankfully it contains links to all the good [[starting points]]. So maybe what's needed is just to divide up by [[advocate]], [[developer]], [[designer]] roles? So that we figure out what people can do for Consumerium, and send them to the right place?

:hmmh. hmmh. Thanks. True. Aren't developer and designer the same thing in practice? Shouldn't that be the other way around?

::They're the same only in ''bad'' practice. Three different roles. The advocate figures out what's important, the developer responds in code, the designer responds in design and changes to the [[user model]].

::Why should the person who chooses the words "Main Page, Recent changes, View discussion", layout and other aspects of the user interface be the same as the person hacking the code? In general the two skill sets are totally different. Bad user interfaces like say [[TikiWiki]] come from setting up stupid development cycles where if you can't talk like a developer, you can't be heard about the user interface. Why do you think Microsoft rules the soft-world? Because they have Program Managers to design things and mock them up, and Project Managers to deliver them in good debugged code. There's nothing in common except the "look and feel" between the two jobs.

::A good guide to how to lay out a main page for a meta type discussion like this is at http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page_style - this style is expressed for Meta-Wikipedia in http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page_Neutral which is sort of the "users' main page". A Main Page *HAS TO* give a concrete and specific understanding of a project, and it *HAS TO* provide clear visible up-front links to the values and concepts of the project. Look at *ANY* non-profit organization's page. They do *NOT* open with all the wonderful technology they are going to use... or a vague mission statement. They open with very specific stories and images.

--------

''Shouldn't this be linked from the [[Main Page]] as "[[Consumerium Services]]" or something?''

::Doing it. Will include ALL of what's below in a detailed essay, and after that, will summarize to the [[Main Page]] to keep the intro to three paragraphs with specific stories and images and an idea of "what you will see and hold in your hand"

==Brief Introduction to The Concept of Consumerium==

From the consumption perspective Consumerium is about enabling a shift from affective buying behaviour based on illusions to affective buying behaviour based on [[features|information]] on the social and environmental impacts of the production and naturally the perceived quality of the product.

We hope to achieve this by building two, consumer accessible, complementary facilities:
*[[Content Wiki|The Content Wiki]] where we hope people will build an abundance of '''neutral information''' about products and their production processes and all involved factors. The integrity of this information will be negotiated and upheld by peer review in a similar manner as in [[Wikipedia]], The Free Encyclopedia and furthermore by maintaining a backend data storage called The Consumerium Vault which mostly validates the existance or non-existance of things the articles in The Content Wiki claim to refer to. The goal of the Content Wiki is to be '''objective'''.

*[[The Consumerium Exchange]] or [[Opinion Wiki|The Opinion Wiki]] - Where strictly formed datastructures are used to record, archive and enable the aggregation of information on the popularity of different '''opinions''', mostly in the form of competing [[campaign]]s on issues related to production and consumption. The Consumerium Exchange is very rigid internally, but the view it provides to consumers and producers alike is very fluid and based on ones '''subjective preferences'''.

Both of these facilities will be accessible through the Internet, but we hope to work together with the retailers of the world, who seek an competitive advantage by providing a better shopping experience for their clients, to bring access to the '''shelf front''' via [[short-range wireless]] connections, optimally [[Bluetooth]], for zero cost to the consumer.

:"Bluetooth" is not "zero cost". It costs money to buy hardware and more money to keep it up to date. Also wireless services usually cost money. The cheapest devices to do this would certainly not be Bluetooth but dumber analog FM or other RF devices. Don't "Require" hardware that isn't required.
::Well the original concept was rather technology-centered and I can see your point in your argument but looking at it from where I stand [[bluetooth]] is a very essential technology because it allows ''anonymous'' (from v1.2 on) and ''secure'' access to information resources in close physical range which of course is a terribly essential thing. I mean that [[consumerium]] isn't worth building at all if the [[consumer]] as a human can't be protected from things like [[company]], corporation, advertisement agency or algorithms made by any of the previous or whatever other [[no body]]

...to be continued...
----
It is one of several [[essential projects]] that will make [[moral purchasing]] a daily reality. Consumerium focuses this '''''[[moral purchasing power]]'''''.

Advice will probably be seen by the [[end user]] as a [[red light|red]]/[[yellow light|yellow]]/[[green light]] traffic-type signal, or as a [[score]] easily translated into a [[price premium]], or as a note in [[Simple English]] about issues with, or merits of, the product. All rely on [[opinion wiki]] comments compiled by software using a [[wikitext standard]]. [[Semantic link]] standards may be required also.

In any case, the release of this advice is keyed to [[bar code]]s, and may rely on frequently updated data embedded in hand-held devices, and/or dynamic retrieval via [[short-range wireless]] to the shelf front. Where possible, reasons for making buying decisions, or refusing a certain product, will go as [[feedback]] to the [[producer]]s. This will enhance the consumer experience, advance product development and keep this planet as hospitable as possible for human and other natural life.

The alternative, of course, is for us all to be blissfully [[ignorant]].
----
Here's a summary of anticipated [[Consumerium Services]]:

:Our front end will be seen by the [[end user]] as a [[red light|red]]/[[yellow light|yellow]]/[[green light]] traffic-type signal, or as a [[score]] easily translated into a [[price premium]], or as a note in [[Simple English]] about issues with, or merits of, the product. Release of this advice is keyed to [[bar code]]s.

:There are several ways to connect back to front end: we may rely on frequently updated data embedded in hand-held devices, and/or dynamic retrieval via [[short-range wireless]] to the shelf front. Where possible, reasons for making buying decisions, or refusing a certain product, will go as [[feedback]] to the [[producer]]s.

:Our back end relies on [[opinion wiki]] comments compiled by software using a [[wikitext standard]]. [[Semantic link]] standards may be required also. To work out the conventions and issues involved, we are working through a wiki in the R&D phase.

''This'' is that wiki. We invite you to participate by editing proposals and discussions below. Any page can be edited by anyone, or restored to a previous state by anyone, which is the convention we assume will also apply in operation:
----
humm. It's better now imho. [[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 23:58, 14 Dec 2003 (EET)

:Thanks. The [[Consumerium FAQ]] could use an update maybe, but the questions answered on the front page are the ones that give the clearest legal and physical and trust relationship picture of what we've talked about - the ones that most people will tend to ask up front, suspicious about "who controls this" and "what will this look like?" It really pays to filter out people who care more about "Free software purity" or "gaining status by pleasing powerful people". The Main Page should be simple enough that you can read it, agree or disagree, respond emotionally quite favourably or not, and move on if you have doubts. A good front page is something you can tell in about two minutes if you want to participate, or not.

:http://www.metaweb.com is a good example of this kind of front page. We might work with them on wiki style issues, they have done a pretty good job especially with their [http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=Metaweb:Intermediate_page intermediate page format].

----

There's some interesting data at
"the Executive Paywatch system"
http://www.aflcio.org/corporateamerica/paywatch/ceou/database.cfm
that might be relevant to consumers.
----
I find this front page absolutely overwhelming. All of your ideas re: signals in supermarkets are cool, but, frankly, when I arrived here, I hoped I could just find a list of companies, and quickly research whether, if I buy sneakers from Adidas, will I be supporting child slavery, etc. I'm new and don't want to step on toes by editing the main page, esp. if I have a different vision of what this should be. Do you mind if I give it a go and you can revert? Or should I discuss this somewhere else? [[User:DanKeshet|DanKeshet]] 22:08, 10 Mar 2004 (EET)

User:DanKeshet

2004-03-10T19:44:21Z

DanKeshet: checking in

I live in [[w:Seattle, Washington]], USA.

URL: http://www.channel1.com/users/dkesh

Wikipedia since the early usemod days. See [[w:user:DanKeshet]]

Consumerium:Village pump

2004-03-10T19:42:18Z

DanKeshet: