https://develop.consumerium.org/w/api.php?action=feedcontributions&feedformat=atom&user=Bird 2026-05-29T21:09:28Z User contributions MediaWiki 1.43.8 https://develop.consumerium.org/w/index.php?title=Consumerium:Village_pump&diff=3574 2004-04-13T20:56:27Z

<p>Bird: redact comments based on hasty research. </p> <hr /> <div>&lt;table align=&quot;right&quot;&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td&gt; [[Image:Village_pump.jpg]]&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/table&gt;<br /> '''Hi and welcome to the Consumerium Village pump.''' <br /> <br /> The purpose of this page is to ask questions about how we should go about things here and answering them.<br /> ----<br /> <br /> How long do we have to wait before we can start working on the research wiki?<br /> <br /> ''From below''<br /> :::A &quot;much simpler pilot project&quot; would be to just assemble the [[Consumerium:intermediate page]]s. ''The [[Research Wiki]] consists of such pages, but we don't know what they look like yet. So please help with that.''<br /> <br /> ----<br /> <br /> This name is not good ihmo. There is nothing to buy and nothing to sell at a village pump. It is just a place to lose the soap. Please don't copy the english wiki for the sake of it.<br /> <br /> :Why not copy the 'pedia, it'll make people coming from [[Wikipedia]] feel much more home quickly.<br /> <br /> :::This is a good reason NOT to copy it, considering that we get Lir and Angela coming over... not the good Wikipedia users.<br /> <br /> ::::I completely embrace the concept of following the stylistic format of that occupied territory at another [[large public wiki]]. The sheep image is so apropro for subjects of the english Wiki's current administration, but we probably concur that visitors to this site aspire to be less like sheep. I am a strong advocate of modeling respect and mature adult behavior in all adminstrative approaches, but the troll game seems about on the level of what's going on over there for now. Whatever this means about an image for this page at this juncture, I don't know, but eventually an image of adult humans in a normal context at a village pump would be most consistent with a deprogrammed, self-actualized, inteligent mindset folks over here probably hope to propagate. [[User:Bird|Bird]] 10:13, 13 Apr 2004 (EEST)<br /> <br /> <br /> My [[Consumerium:Market Place]] was a much better one.<br /> :That name would indicate there is something for sale there. I've been thinking that once we have some preliminary [[XML]] ready, then we have to set up [[Consumerium:Pseudore]] (Consumerium PSEUDo StORE), a sort of game or playground where we can test the functionality of our markup and simulate different situations eg. handling parties who wish to input [[Disinformation]] to undermine the [[Integrity]] and [[Reputation]] of the system. I'll iterate on this once it's time. [[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 14:43 Jun 15, 2003 (EEST)<br /> <br /> ::We already had one such incident, the arrival of a party who inputs disinformation and commits [[sysop vandalism]] at another [[large public wiki]], who had to be driven off. It would be good to deal with these, as you suggest, in a more disciplined and systematic role-playing way. Trolls do not want to have to do it the old-fashioned way. THe time may have come for this.<br /> <br /> Sigh. No one ever listen to a poor House Elf :-(<br /> <br /> :::Trolls do!<br /> <br /> ----<br /> <br /> Hello consumerists. I'm not sure who's in charge around here, but whoever it is, read this. Everyone else, go away ;)<br /> <br /> :Typical Wikipedian fascist attitude.<br /> <br /> I am a Wikipedia developer, and we're trying to get all system administrators who are using our software to join the newly-created MediaWiki-l mailing list. We will use this list to tell you about bugs, new releases, security problems, etc. In particular, there is a minor security flaw which we are working to fix at the moment. We expect the volume of this list to be very low.<br /> <br /> To subscribe, enter your details at:<br /> <br /> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l<br /> <br /> :Thanks, I'll do that.<br /> <br /> By the way, not everyone calls their Q&amp;A page the village pump. The French Wikipedia has a &quot;bistro&quot; for example. -- [[User:Tim Starling|Tim Starling]] 11:49, 13 Oct 2003 (EEST)<br /> <br /> :Sure. Maybe [[Consumerium:Irrigation hub]] would have been a better name [[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 12:28, 13 Oct 2003 (EEST)<br /> <br /> ::Propose [[Consumerium:Party]]. That can be like a garden party, or like a political party. Make sense?<br /> <br /> :::Umm... No?<br /> <br /> ::::You don't like parties?<br /> <br /> ----<br /> Heh. I was in the process of starting the exact same thing, only I was going to call it consumerpedia. Most excellent. I'm glad to find like-minded people. [[User:DanKeshet|DanKeshet]]<br /> <br /> :Maybe the name consumerpedia makes sense for the ordinary end user interface to the [[Consumerium:intermediate page]]s? It would make sense to specialize the user interface for those doing such lookup - maybe we should keep using [[mediawiki]] or [[GetWiki]] for that purpose. But see [[Consumerium Service access]], this is only one of several types of access. And the [[Signal Wiki]] is hopefully stuff that we can truly rely on, that has gone through some quite serious vetting.<br /> <br /> After extensive reading, I understand this place to be for the purposes of planning an unbelievably large-scale project. I do not mean to discourage you when I say that this sounds profoundly overengineered to me. It disappoints me greatly to say that, because I was very excited to first see this place. But after reading at least a dozen pages, I have no confidence that I can be of any use here. I wish you all good luck. If any of you have a desire to put together a much simpler pilot project, please contact me. My email address consists of the first letter of my first name, the first four letters of my last name, and @channel1.com. peace, [[User:DanKeshet|DanKeshet]]<br /> <br /> :The original time-scale for implementing the planned [[Features]], which are way ambitious as I've stated from the begining of this project on, has in my mind been 10 to 15 years, out of which two years have now elapsed, with the [[Goals and means of Consumerium|mission statement]] online. All help is appreciated and yes, we will have to start with a small pilot. --[[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 22:44, 11 Mar 2004 (EET)<br /> <br /> ::You know what? Let me make some edits at [[user:DanKeshet/scratchpad]] and see whether my vision fits with yours. [[User:DanKeshet|DanKeshet]] 02:14, 12 Mar 2004 (EET)<br /> <br /> :::You are correct that the original vision was &quot;profoundly overengineered&quot; in the hardware sense. If you look at [[Hardware Requirements]] you see all kinds of hardware thrown at non-problems. But that's been toned down somewhat, and there's thinking about [[audio]] and other [[terminal device]]s that already exist, that would not require hundreds of dollars of custom hardware per end user. But there are stores like the [[Big Carrot]] that prove that there is a market for a complete and exact solution that really does offer some guarantees that the data is accurate.<br /> <br /> :::A &quot;much simpler pilot project&quot; would be to just assemble the [[Consumerium:intermediate page]]s. That is roughly the scale of [[Metaweb]], which is doing exactly that. There's no reason at all not to start that right now. They too have very long term plans for a [[semantic web]] and perhaps even make Stephenson's [http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=Young_Lady's_Illustrated_Primer Young Lady's Illustrated Primer] work, making education really incredibly cheap. That too is a one-generation plan.<br /> <br /> <br /> &lt;sub&gt;The logo is from [[w:Wikipedia:Village Pump]]&lt;/sub&gt;</div>

Bird https://develop.consumerium.org/w/index.php?title=Consumerium:Village_pump&diff=3573 2004-04-13T07:13:43Z

<p>Bird: </p> <hr /> <div>&lt;table align=&quot;right&quot;&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td&gt; [[Image:Village_pump.jpg]]&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/table&gt;<br /> '''Hi and welcome to the Consumerium Village pump.''' <br /> <br /> The purpose of this page is to ask questions about how we should go about things here and answering them.<br /> ----<br /> <br /> How long do we have to wait before we can start working on the research wiki?<br /> <br /> ''From below''<br /> :::A &quot;much simpler pilot project&quot; would be to just assemble the [[Consumerium:intermediate page]]s. ''The [[Research Wiki]] consists of such pages, but we don't know what they look like yet. So please help with that.''<br /> <br /> ----<br /> <br /> This name is not good ihmo. There is nothing to buy and nothing to sell at a village pump. It is just a place to lose the soap. Please don't copy the english wiki for the sake of it.<br /> <br /> :Why not copy the 'pedia, it'll make people coming from [[Wikipedia]] feel much more home quickly.<br /> <br /> :::This is a good reason NOT to copy it, considering that we get Lir and Angela coming over... not the good Wikipedia users.<br /> <br /> ::::I completely embrace the concept of following the stylistic format of that occupied territory at another [[large public wiki]]. The sheep image is so apropro for subjects of the english Wiki's current administration, but we probably concur that visitors to this site aspire to be less like sheep. I am a strong advocate of modeling respect and mature adult behavior in all adminstrative approaches, but the troll game seems about on the level of what's going on over there for now. Whatever this means about an image for this page at this juncture, I don't know, but eventually an image of adult humans in a normal context at a village pump would be most consistent with a deprogrammed, self-actualized, inteligent mindset folks over here probably hope to propagate. [[User:Bird|Bird]] 10:13, 13 Apr 2004 (EEST)<br /> <br /> <br /> My [[Consumerium:Market Place]] was a much better one.<br /> :That name would indicate there is something for sale there. I've been thinking that once we have some preliminary [[XML]] ready, then we have to set up [[Consumerium:Pseudore]] (Consumerium PSEUDo StORE), a sort of game or playground where we can test the functionality of our markup and simulate different situations eg. handling parties who wish to input [[Disinformation]] to undermine the [[Integrity]] and [[Reputation]] of the system. I'll iterate on this once it's time. [[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 14:43 Jun 15, 2003 (EEST)<br /> <br /> ::We already had one such incident, the arrival of a party who inputs disinformation and commits [[sysop vandalism]] at another [[large public wiki]], who had to be driven off. It would be good to deal with these, as you suggest, in a more disciplined and systematic role-playing way. Trolls do not want to have to do it the old-fashioned way. THe time may have come for this.<br /> <br /> Sigh. No one ever listen to a poor House Elf :-(<br /> <br /> :::Trolls do!<br /> <br /> ----<br /> <br /> Hello consumerists. I'm not sure who's in charge around here, but whoever it is, read this. Everyone else, go away ;)<br /> <br /> :Typical Wikipedian fascist attitude.<br /> <br /> I am a Wikipedia developer, and we're trying to get all system administrators who are using our software to join the newly-created MediaWiki-l mailing list. We will use this list to tell you about bugs, new releases, security problems, etc. In particular, there is a minor security flaw which we are working to fix at the moment. We expect the volume of this list to be very low.<br /> <br /> To subscribe, enter your details at:<br /> <br /> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l<br /> <br /> :Thanks, I'll do that.<br /> <br /> By the way, not everyone calls their Q&amp;A page the village pump. The French Wikipedia has a &quot;bistro&quot; for example. -- [[User:Tim Starling|Tim Starling]] 11:49, 13 Oct 2003 (EEST)<br /> <br /> :Sure. Maybe [[Consumerium:Irrigation hub]] would have been a better name [[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 12:28, 13 Oct 2003 (EEST)<br /> <br /> ::Propose [[Consumerium:Party]]. That can be like a garden party, or like a political party. Make sense?<br /> <br /> :::Umm... No?<br /> <br /> ::::You don't like parties?<br /> <br /> ----<br /> Heh. I was in the process of starting the exact same thing, only I was going to call it consumerpedia. Most excellent. I'm glad to find like-minded people. [[User:DanKeshet|DanKeshet]]<br /> <br /> :Maybe the name consumerpedia makes sense for the ordinary end user interface to the [[Consumerium:intermediate page]]s? It would make sense to specialize the user interface for those doing such lookup - maybe we should keep using [[mediawiki]] or [[GetWiki]] for that purpose. But see [[Consumerium Service access]], this is only one of several types of access. And the [[Signal Wiki]] is hopefully stuff that we can truly rely on, that has gone through some quite serious vetting.<br /> <br /> After extensive reading, I understand this place to be for the purposes of planning an unbelievably large-scale project. I do not mean to discourage you when I say that this sounds profoundly overengineered to me. It disappoints me greatly to say that, because I was very excited to first see this place. But after reading at least a dozen pages, I have no confidence that I can be of any use here. I wish you all good luck. If any of you have a desire to put together a much simpler pilot project, please contact me. My email address consists of the first letter of my first name, the first four letters of my last name, and @channel1.com. peace, [[User:DanKeshet|DanKeshet]]<br /> <br /> :The original time-scale for implementing the planned [[Features]], which are way ambitious as I've stated from the begining of this project on, has in my mind been 10 to 15 years, out of which two years have now elapsed, with the [[Goals and means of Consumerium|mission statement]] online. All help is appreciated and yes, we will have to start with a small pilot. --[[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 22:44, 11 Mar 2004 (EET)<br /> <br /> ::You know what? Let me make some edits at [[user:DanKeshet/scratchpad]] and see whether my vision fits with yours. [[User:DanKeshet|DanKeshet]] 02:14, 12 Mar 2004 (EET)<br /> <br /> :::You are correct that the original vision was &quot;profoundly overengineered&quot; in the hardware sense. If you look at [[Hardware Requirements]] you see all kinds of hardware thrown at non-problems. But that's been toned down somewhat, and there's thinking about [[audio]] and other [[terminal device]]s that already exist, that would not require hundreds of dollars of custom hardware per end user. But there are stores like the [[Big Carrot]] that prove that there is a market for a complete and exact solution that really does offer some guarantees that the data is accurate.<br /> <br /> :::A &quot;much simpler pilot project&quot; would be to just assemble the [[Consumerium:intermediate page]]s. That is roughly the scale of [[Metaweb]], which is doing exactly that. There's no reason at all not to start that right now. They too have very long term plans for a [[semantic web]] and perhaps even make Stephenson's [http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=Young_Lady's_Illustrated_Primer Young Lady's Illustrated Primer] work, making education really incredibly cheap. That too is a one-generation plan.<br /> <br /> <br /> &lt;sub&gt;The logo is from [[w:Wikipedia:Village Pump]]&lt;/sub&gt;<br /> <br /> ----<br /> Founder, you know me. Can't say a lot here, due to an on-going investigation. But salude -- your work has streaked across the virtual sky, shining light on disinformation of the ner' do well trust-fund babies of the rich and casting some of the first shadows that outlined methods of abusive governance being taught by one conservative Florida porn-publisher. To you and the crew: I'm not asleep.<br /> <br /> And, to make this into a question instead of a hello, are those few edits I made on the right track? I can offer some edits oriented toward stance and internal structure, probably tidying up behind what appears to be a very prolific starting pace. I need to balance my time with the aforementioned investigation, which means I should budget what I do here, and probably offer low-level work when I don't want to cognate in high gear. I'm also working on compiling research related to human behavior with a strong focus on biological basis -- I don't know if that is what you are intending for the research wiki, but an understanding of the biology of behavior and motivation are vital tools for a public to be able to deprogram and resist the current atmosphere of world-wide mental colonization. <br /> :::::::&lt;i&gt;~=&lt;sub&gt;\[[User:Bird|Bird]]/&lt;/sub&gt;=~&lt;/I&gt;</div>

Bird https://develop.consumerium.org/w/index.php?title=Consumerium:Village_pump&diff=3566 2004-04-13T06:59:37Z

<p>Bird: </p> <hr /> <div>&lt;table align=&quot;right&quot;&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td&gt; [[Image:Village_pump.jpg]]&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/table&gt;<br /> '''Hi and welcome to the Consumerium Village pump.''' <br /> <br /> The purpose of this page is to ask questions about how we should go about things here and answering them.<br /> ----<br /> <br /> How long do we have to wait before we can start working on the research wiki?<br /> <br /> ''From below''<br /> :::A &quot;much simpler pilot project&quot; would be to just assemble the [[Consumerium:intermediate page]]s. ''The [[Research Wiki]] consists of such pages, but we don't know what they look like yet. So please help with that.''<br /> <br /> ----<br /> <br /> This name is not good ihmo. There is nothing to buy and nothing to sell at a village pump. It is just a place to lose the soap. Please don't copy the english wiki for the sake of it.<br /> <br /> :Why not copy the 'pedia, it'll make people coming from [[Wikipedia]] feel much more home quickly.<br /> <br /> :::This is a good reason NOT to copy it, considering that we get Lir and Angela coming over... not the good Wikipedia users.<br /> <br /> My [[Consumerium:Market Place]] was a much better one.<br /> :That name would indicate there is something for sale there. I've been thinking that once we have some preliminary [[XML]] ready, then we have to set up [[Consumerium:Pseudore]] (Consumerium PSEUDo StORE), a sort of game or playground where we can test the functionality of our markup and simulate different situations eg. handling parties who wish to input [[Disinformation]] to undermine the [[Integrity]] and [[Reputation]] of the system. I'll iterate on this once it's time. [[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 14:43 Jun 15, 2003 (EEST)<br /> <br /> ::We already had one such incident, the arrival of a party who inputs disinformation and commits [[sysop vandalism]] at another [[large public wiki]], who had to be driven off. It would be good to deal with these, as you suggest, in a more disciplined and systematic role-playing way. Trolls do not want to have to do it the old-fashioned way. THe time may have come for this.<br /> <br /> Sigh. No one ever listen to a poor House Elf :-(<br /> <br /> :::Trolls do!<br /> <br /> ----<br /> <br /> Hello consumerists. I'm not sure who's in charge around here, but whoever it is, read this. Everyone else, go away ;)<br /> <br /> :Typical Wikipedian fascist attitude.<br /> <br /> I am a Wikipedia developer, and we're trying to get all system administrators who are using our software to join the newly-created MediaWiki-l mailing list. We will use this list to tell you about bugs, new releases, security problems, etc. In particular, there is a minor security flaw which we are working to fix at the moment. We expect the volume of this list to be very low.<br /> <br /> To subscribe, enter your details at:<br /> <br /> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l<br /> <br /> :Thanks, I'll do that.<br /> <br /> By the way, not everyone calls their Q&amp;A page the village pump. The French Wikipedia has a &quot;bistro&quot; for example. -- [[User:Tim Starling|Tim Starling]] 11:49, 13 Oct 2003 (EEST)<br /> <br /> :Sure. Maybe [[Consumerium:Irrigation hub]] would have been a better name [[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 12:28, 13 Oct 2003 (EEST)<br /> <br /> ::Propose [[Consumerium:Party]]. That can be like a garden party, or like a political party. Make sense?<br /> <br /> :::Umm... No?<br /> <br /> ::::You don't like parties?<br /> <br /> ----<br /> Heh. I was in the process of starting the exact same thing, only I was going to call it consumerpedia. Most excellent. I'm glad to find like-minded people. [[User:DanKeshet|DanKeshet]]<br /> <br /> :Maybe the name consumerpedia makes sense for the ordinary end user interface to the [[Consumerium:intermediate page]]s? It would make sense to specialize the user interface for those doing such lookup - maybe we should keep using [[mediawiki]] or [[GetWiki]] for that purpose. But see [[Consumerium Service access]], this is only one of several types of access. And the [[Signal Wiki]] is hopefully stuff that we can truly rely on, that has gone through some quite serious vetting.<br /> <br /> After extensive reading, I understand this place to be for the purposes of planning an unbelievably large-scale project. I do not mean to discourage you when I say that this sounds profoundly overengineered to me. It disappoints me greatly to say that, because I was very excited to first see this place. But after reading at least a dozen pages, I have no confidence that I can be of any use here. I wish you all good luck. If any of you have a desire to put together a much simpler pilot project, please contact me. My email address consists of the first letter of my first name, the first four letters of my last name, and @channel1.com. peace, [[User:DanKeshet|DanKeshet]]<br /> <br /> :The original time-scale for implementing the planned [[Features]], which are way ambitious as I've stated from the begining of this project on, has in my mind been 10 to 15 years, out of which two years have now elapsed, with the [[Goals and means of Consumerium|mission statement]] online. All help is appreciated and yes, we will have to start with a small pilot. --[[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 22:44, 11 Mar 2004 (EET)<br /> <br /> ::You know what? Let me make some edits at [[user:DanKeshet/scratchpad]] and see whether my vision fits with yours. [[User:DanKeshet|DanKeshet]] 02:14, 12 Mar 2004 (EET)<br /> <br /> :::You are correct that the original vision was &quot;profoundly overengineered&quot; in the hardware sense. If you look at [[Hardware Requirements]] you see all kinds of hardware thrown at non-problems. But that's been toned down somewhat, and there's thinking about [[audio]] and other [[terminal device]]s that already exist, that would not require hundreds of dollars of custom hardware per end user. But there are stores like the [[Big Carrot]] that prove that there is a market for a complete and exact solution that really does offer some guarantees that the data is accurate.<br /> <br /> :::A &quot;much simpler pilot project&quot; would be to just assemble the [[Consumerium:intermediate page]]s. That is roughly the scale of [[Metaweb]], which is doing exactly that. There's no reason at all not to start that right now. They too have very long term plans for a [[semantic web]] and perhaps even make Stephenson's [http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=Young_Lady's_Illustrated_Primer Young Lady's Illustrated Primer] work, making education really incredibly cheap. That too is a one-generation plan.<br /> <br /> <br /> &lt;sub&gt;The logo is from [[w:Wikipedia:Village Pump]]&lt;/sub&gt;<br /> <br /> ----<br /> Founder, you know me. Can't say a lot here, due to an on-going investigation. But salude -- your work has streaked across the virtual sky, shining light on disinformation of the ner' do well trust-fund babies of the rich and casting some of the first shadows that outlined methods of abusive governance being taught by one conservative Florida porn-publisher. To you and the crew: I'm not asleep.<br /> <br /> And, to make this into a question instead of a hello, are those few edits I made on the right track? I can offer some edits oriented toward stance and internal structure, probably tidying up behind what appears to be a very prolific starting pace. I need to balance my time with the aforementioned investigation, which means I should budget what I do here, and probably offer low-level work when I don't want to cognate in high gear. I'm also working on compiling research related to human behavior with a strong focus on biological basis -- I don't know if that is what you are intending for the research wiki, but an understanding of the biology of behavior and motivation are vital tools for a public to be able to deprogram and resist the current atmosphere of world-wide mental colonization. <br /> :::::::&lt;i&gt;~=&lt;sub&gt;\[[User:Bird|Bird]]/&lt;/sub&gt;=~&lt;/I&gt;</div>

Bird https://develop.consumerium.org/w/index.php?title=Consumerium:Village_pump&diff=3565 2004-04-13T06:57:27Z

<p>Bird: </p> <hr /> <div>&lt;table align=&quot;right&quot;&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td&gt; [[Image:Village_pump.jpg]]&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/table&gt;<br /> '''Hi and welcome to the Consumerium Village pump.''' <br /> <br /> The purpose of this page is to ask questions about how we should go about things here and answering them.<br /> ----<br /> <br /> How long do we have to wait before we can start working on the research wiki?<br /> <br /> ''From below''<br /> :::A &quot;much simpler pilot project&quot; would be to just assemble the [[Consumerium:intermediate page]]s. ''The [[Research Wiki]] consists of such pages, but we don't know what they look like yet. So please help with that.''<br /> <br /> ----<br /> <br /> This name is not good ihmo. There is nothing to buy and nothing to sell at a village pump. It is just a place to lose the soap. Please don't copy the english wiki for the sake of it.<br /> <br /> :Why not copy the 'pedia, it'll make people coming from [[Wikipedia]] feel much more home quickly.<br /> <br /> :::This is a good reason NOT to copy it, considering that we get Lir and Angela coming over... not the good Wikipedia users.<br /> <br /> My [[Consumerium:Market Place]] was a much better one.<br /> :That name would indicate there is something for sale there. I've been thinking that once we have some preliminary [[XML]] ready, then we have to set up [[Consumerium:Pseudore]] (Consumerium PSEUDo StORE), a sort of game or playground where we can test the functionality of our markup and simulate different situations eg. handling parties who wish to input [[Disinformation]] to undermine the [[Integrity]] and [[Reputation]] of the system. I'll iterate on this once it's time. [[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 14:43 Jun 15, 2003 (EEST)<br /> <br /> ::We already had one such incident, the arrival of a party who inputs disinformation and commits [[sysop vandalism]] at another [[large public wiki]], who had to be driven off. It would be good to deal with these, as you suggest, in a more disciplined and systematic role-playing way. Trolls do not want to have to do it the old-fashioned way. THe time may have come for this.<br /> <br /> Sigh. No one ever listen to a poor House Elf :-(<br /> <br /> :::Trolls do!<br /> <br /> ----<br /> <br /> Hello consumerists. I'm not sure who's in charge around here, but whoever it is, read this. Everyone else, go away ;)<br /> <br /> :Typical Wikipedian fascist attitude.<br /> <br /> I am a Wikipedia developer, and we're trying to get all system administrators who are using our software to join the newly-created MediaWiki-l mailing list. We will use this list to tell you about bugs, new releases, security problems, etc. In particular, there is a minor security flaw which we are working to fix at the moment. We expect the volume of this list to be very low.<br /> <br /> To subscribe, enter your details at:<br /> <br /> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l<br /> <br /> :Thanks, I'll do that.<br /> <br /> By the way, not everyone calls their Q&amp;A page the village pump. The French Wikipedia has a &quot;bistro&quot; for example. -- [[User:Tim Starling|Tim Starling]] 11:49, 13 Oct 2003 (EEST)<br /> <br /> :Sure. Maybe [[Consumerium:Irrigation hub]] would have been a better name [[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 12:28, 13 Oct 2003 (EEST)<br /> <br /> ::Propose [[Consumerium:Party]]. That can be like a garden party, or like a political party. Make sense?<br /> <br /> :::Umm... No?<br /> <br /> ::::You don't like parties?<br /> <br /> ----<br /> Heh. I was in the process of starting the exact same thing, only I was going to call it consumerpedia. Most excellent. I'm glad to find like-minded people. [[User:DanKeshet|DanKeshet]]<br /> <br /> :Maybe the name consumerpedia makes sense for the ordinary end user interface to the [[Consumerium:intermediate page]]s? It would make sense to specialize the user interface for those doing such lookup - maybe we should keep using [[mediawiki]] or [[GetWiki]] for that purpose. But see [[Consumerium Service access]], this is only one of several types of access. And the [[Signal Wiki]] is hopefully stuff that we can truly rely on, that has gone through some quite serious vetting.<br /> <br /> After extensive reading, I understand this place to be for the purposes of planning an unbelievably large-scale project. I do not mean to discourage you when I say that this sounds profoundly overengineered to me. It disappoints me greatly to say that, because I was very excited to first see this place. But after reading at least a dozen pages, I have no confidence that I can be of any use here. I wish you all good luck. If any of you have a desire to put together a much simpler pilot project, please contact me. My email address consists of the first letter of my first name, the first four letters of my last name, and @channel1.com. peace, [[User:DanKeshet|DanKeshet]]<br /> <br /> :The original time-scale for implementing the planned [[Features]], which are way ambitious as I've stated from the begining of this project on, has in my mind been 10 to 15 years, out of which two years have now elapsed, with the [[Goals and means of Consumerium|mission statement]] online. All help is appreciated and yes, we will have to start with a small pilot. --[[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 22:44, 11 Mar 2004 (EET)<br /> <br /> ::You know what? Let me make some edits at [[user:DanKeshet/scratchpad]] and see whether my vision fits with yours. [[User:DanKeshet|DanKeshet]] 02:14, 12 Mar 2004 (EET)<br /> <br /> :::You are correct that the original vision was &quot;profoundly overengineered&quot; in the hardware sense. If you look at [[Hardware Requirements]] you see all kinds of hardware thrown at non-problems. But that's been toned down somewhat, and there's thinking about [[audio]] and other [[terminal device]]s that already exist, that would not require hundreds of dollars of custom hardware per end user. But there are stores like the [[Big Carrot]] that prove that there is a market for a complete and exact solution that really does offer some guarantees that the data is accurate.<br /> <br /> :::A &quot;much simpler pilot project&quot; would be to just assemble the [[Consumerium:intermediate page]]s. That is roughly the scale of [[Metaweb]], which is doing exactly that. There's no reason at all not to start that right now. They too have very long term plans for a [[semantic web]] and perhaps even make Stephenson's [http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=Young_Lady's_Illustrated_Primer Young Lady's Illustrated Primer] work, making education really incredibly cheap. That too is a one-generation plan.<br /> <br /> <br /> &lt;sub&gt;The logo is from [[w:Wikipedia:Village Pump]]&lt;/sub&gt;<br /> <br /> ----<br /> Founder, you know me. Can't say a lot here, due to an on-going investigation. But salude -- your work has streaked across the virtual sky, shining light on disinformation of the ner' do well trust-fund babies of the rich and casting some of the first shadows that outlined methods of abusive governance being taught by one conservative Florida porn-publisher. To you and the crew: I'm not asleep.<br /> <br /> And, to make this into a question instead of a hello, are those few edits I made on the right track? I can offer some edits oriented toward stance and internal structure, probably tidying up behind what appears to be a very prolific starting pace. I need to balance my time with the aforementioned investigation, which means I should budget what I do here, and probably offer low-level work when I don't want to cognate in high gear. I'm also working on compiling research related to human behavior with a strong focus on biological basis -- I don't know if that is what you are intending for the research wiki, but it is an essential to understand the biology of behavior and motivation for a public to be able to deprogram and resist the current atmosphere of world-wide mental colonization. <br /> :::::::&lt;i&gt;~=&lt;sub&gt;\[[User:Bird|Bird]]/&lt;/sub&gt;=~&lt;/I&gt;</div>

Bird https://develop.consumerium.org/w/index.php?title=Consumerium:Village_pump&diff=3564 2004-04-13T06:56:37Z

<p>Bird: </p> <hr /> <div>&lt;table align=&quot;right&quot;&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td&gt; [[Image:Village_pump.jpg]]&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/table&gt;<br /> '''Hi and welcome to the Consumerium Village pump.''' <br /> <br /> The purpose of this page is to ask questions about how we should go about things here and answering them.<br /> ----<br /> <br /> How long do we have to wait before we can start working on the research wiki?<br /> <br /> ''From below''<br /> :::A &quot;much simpler pilot project&quot; would be to just assemble the [[Consumerium:intermediate page]]s. ''The [[Research Wiki]] consists of such pages, but we don't know what they look like yet. So please help with that.''<br /> <br /> ----<br /> <br /> This name is not good ihmo. There is nothing to buy and nothing to sell at a village pump. It is just a place to lose the soap. Please don't copy the english wiki for the sake of it.<br /> <br /> :Why not copy the 'pedia, it'll make people coming from [[Wikipedia]] feel much more home quickly.<br /> <br /> :::This is a good reason NOT to copy it, considering that we get Lir and Angela coming over... not the good Wikipedia users.<br /> <br /> My [[Consumerium:Market Place]] was a much better one.<br /> :That name would indicate there is something for sale there. I've been thinking that once we have some preliminary [[XML]] ready, then we have to set up [[Consumerium:Pseudore]] (Consumerium PSEUDo StORE), a sort of game or playground where we can test the functionality of our markup and simulate different situations eg. handling parties who wish to input [[Disinformation]] to undermine the [[Integrity]] and [[Reputation]] of the system. I'll iterate on this once it's time. [[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 14:43 Jun 15, 2003 (EEST)<br /> <br /> ::We already had one such incident, the arrival of a party who inputs disinformation and commits [[sysop vandalism]] at another [[large public wiki]], who had to be driven off. It would be good to deal with these, as you suggest, in a more disciplined and systematic role-playing way. Trolls do not want to have to do it the old-fashioned way. THe time may have come for this.<br /> <br /> Sigh. No one ever listen to a poor House Elf :-(<br /> <br /> :::Trolls do!<br /> <br /> ----<br /> <br /> Hello consumerists. I'm not sure who's in charge around here, but whoever it is, read this. Everyone else, go away ;)<br /> <br /> :Typical Wikipedian fascist attitude.<br /> <br /> I am a Wikipedia developer, and we're trying to get all system administrators who are using our software to join the newly-created MediaWiki-l mailing list. We will use this list to tell you about bugs, new releases, security problems, etc. In particular, there is a minor security flaw which we are working to fix at the moment. We expect the volume of this list to be very low.<br /> <br /> To subscribe, enter your details at:<br /> <br /> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l<br /> <br /> :Thanks, I'll do that.<br /> <br /> By the way, not everyone calls their Q&amp;A page the village pump. The French Wikipedia has a &quot;bistro&quot; for example. -- [[User:Tim Starling|Tim Starling]] 11:49, 13 Oct 2003 (EEST)<br /> <br /> :Sure. Maybe [[Consumerium:Irrigation hub]] would have been a better name [[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 12:28, 13 Oct 2003 (EEST)<br /> <br /> ::Propose [[Consumerium:Party]]. That can be like a garden party, or like a political party. Make sense?<br /> <br /> :::Umm... No?<br /> <br /> ::::You don't like parties?<br /> <br /> ----<br /> Heh. I was in the process of starting the exact same thing, only I was going to call it consumerpedia. Most excellent. I'm glad to find like-minded people. [[User:DanKeshet|DanKeshet]]<br /> <br /> :Maybe the name consumerpedia makes sense for the ordinary end user interface to the [[Consumerium:intermediate page]]s? It would make sense to specialize the user interface for those doing such lookup - maybe we should keep using [[mediawiki]] or [[GetWiki]] for that purpose. But see [[Consumerium Service access]], this is only one of several types of access. And the [[Signal Wiki]] is hopefully stuff that we can truly rely on, that has gone through some quite serious vetting.<br /> <br /> After extensive reading, I understand this place to be for the purposes of planning an unbelievably large-scale project. I do not mean to discourage you when I say that this sounds profoundly overengineered to me. It disappoints me greatly to say that, because I was very excited to first see this place. But after reading at least a dozen pages, I have no confidence that I can be of any use here. I wish you all good luck. If any of you have a desire to put together a much simpler pilot project, please contact me. My email address consists of the first letter of my first name, the first four letters of my last name, and @channel1.com. peace, [[User:DanKeshet|DanKeshet]]<br /> <br /> :The original time-scale for implementing the planned [[Features]], which are way ambitious as I've stated from the begining of this project on, has in my mind been 10 to 15 years, out of which two years have now elapsed, with the [[Goals and means of Consumerium|mission statement]] online. All help is appreciated and yes, we will have to start with a small pilot. --[[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 22:44, 11 Mar 2004 (EET)<br /> <br /> ::You know what? Let me make some edits at [[user:DanKeshet/scratchpad]] and see whether my vision fits with yours. [[User:DanKeshet|DanKeshet]] 02:14, 12 Mar 2004 (EET)<br /> <br /> :::You are correct that the original vision was &quot;profoundly overengineered&quot; in the hardware sense. If you look at [[Hardware Requirements]] you see all kinds of hardware thrown at non-problems. But that's been toned down somewhat, and there's thinking about [[audio]] and other [[terminal device]]s that already exist, that would not require hundreds of dollars of custom hardware per end user. But there are stores like the [[Big Carrot]] that prove that there is a market for a complete and exact solution that really does offer some guarantees that the data is accurate.<br /> <br /> :::A &quot;much simpler pilot project&quot; would be to just assemble the [[Consumerium:intermediate page]]s. That is roughly the scale of [[Metaweb]], which is doing exactly that. There's no reason at all not to start that right now. They too have very long term plans for a [[semantic web]] and perhaps even make Stephenson's [http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=Young_Lady's_Illustrated_Primer Young Lady's Illustrated Primer] work, making education really incredibly cheap. That too is a one-generation plan.<br /> <br /> <br /> &lt;sub&gt;The logo is from [[w:Wikipedia:Village Pump]]&lt;/sub&gt;<br /> <br /> ----<br /> Founder, you know me. Can't say a lot here, due to an on-going investigation. But salude -- your work has streaked across the virtual sky, shining light on disinformation of the ner' do well trust-fund babies of the rich and casting some of the first shadows that outlined methods of abusive governance being taught by one conservative Florida porn-publisher. To you and the crew: I'm not asleep.<br /> <br /> And, to make this into a question instead of a hello, are those few edits I made on the right track? I can offer some edits oriented toward stance and internal structure, probably tidying up behind what appears to be a very prolific starting pace. I need to balance my time with the aforementioned investigation, which means I should budge what I do here, and probably offer low-level work when I don't want to cognate in high gear. I'm also working on compiling research related to human behavior with a strong focus on biological basis -- I don't know if that is what you are intending for the research wiki, but it is an essential to understand the biology of behavior and motivation for a public to be able to deprogram and resist the current atmosphere of world-wide mental colonization. <br /> :::::::&lt;i&gt;~=&lt;sub&gt;\[[User:Bird|Bird]]/&lt;/sub&gt;=~&lt;/I&gt;</div>

Bird https://develop.consumerium.org/w/index.php?title=Motivation&diff=8988 2004-04-13T06:42:23Z

<p>Bird: </p> <hr /> <div>You, dear [[consumer]], are exposed to thousands of messages each day enticing you to trade your money for consumer products. The messages are filled with claims about what the products will do for you. Marketeers who advance these claims usually want you to do something for them -- to give them money. These [[compliance message]]s usually infer you will realize some [[value]] by complying with the message's instructions. But these messages are usually devoid of respect for your personal values; more often they tell you what values you should hold.<br /> <br /> To realize the best value for your effort, as you understand value, you need [[Features|information]] about the [[product]]s pushed by these messages, and how these items that fill your local [[w:List of supermarkets|supermarket]] got there, straight in front of your nose, packaged into coloured boxes and bags, one more tempting than the other.<br /> <br /> Information about the [[product]]s' [[Features#Indicators of Environmental Friendliness|environmental impact]], [[workers' rights]], the [[producer]]'s [[Features#Indicators of ethical aspects and social responsibility|social conscience]] - or lack thereof, all this has to be available at your fingertips. [[Features|Which company]] made the product you are considering to buy, and [[Features#Raw data|who owns the company]]?<br /> <br /> If you don't like the product or the company, don't buy it - but you could send some [[feedback]] to the producer. Tell them why you don't like the company or product, maybe the heap of mails flooding into the PR offices takes some effect. Is there somebody hiding behind the seemingly [[local value|local and small]] [[brand]], maybe a [[Brand management|multinational giant]] who exploits workers in poor [[countries]] and purchases [[commodity|commodities]] from wherever and whoever supplies them at the [[price premium|lowest price]], not caring about eg. for the human rights situation in the country they are produced in?<br /> <br /> Has somebody [[Boycott|initiated a boycott]] on the company and if so, who might these people be who dare to uphold that you are a bad [[consumer]], even a bad [[body|human being]] in case you decide to buy this product? Even if you don't deem consumption decisions a serious means of civil activism, you may be interested in what [[score|other consumers think]] about this new washing powder. Have a look on what [[comment]]s they have published on the product you want to try. Maybe the most essential thing is to find out how to use these expensive sun-dried [[tomato]]es in order to make your [[Features#Special group: Food stuffs|food taste better]]. <br /> <br /> Maybe you would like to watch a short employer, employee or labor union [[Informational Video|testimony video]] on the [[Workers' rights|working conditions]] of the production site. You wouldn't want to support [[capitalism|rampant capitalists]] exploiting workers ruthlessly, would you?<br /> <br /> ''Think what you think, value what you value, consume how you please, but if you want [[Consumerium Services|information to back your consumption decisions]], consumerium is being built for you.''</div>

Bird https://develop.consumerium.org/w/index.php?title=Compliance_message&diff=15506 2004-04-13T06:40:35Z

<p>Bird: </p> <hr /> <div>A '''compliance message''' is a form of communication intended to cause a person to comply with the intentions of another. Compliance messages in public venues include face-to-face sales pitches, point-of-purchase advertisements and most mass-media [[product]] [[advertisement]]s. <br /> <br /> While compliance messages are most commonly recognized in marketing situations, the communication technique is common in child-rearing, and continues to form a large part of adult communication in many Western and colonial cultures. The form of communication was first recognized in Western language as a product of the immature [[ego]] described by Sigmund Freud, and later became recognized as reflecting a paternalistic form of communication in transactional analysis, which recognizes human interaction as reflecting the mentality of either a child, a parent or an adult. <br /> <br /> In marketing, compliance messages often mask paternalistic approaches as adult-to-adult communication, but such messages often appeal to childish interests of a [[consumer]], in an approach that presents the marketeer as a paternalistic figure. For people who have not fully realized themselves as an independent adult, a paternalistic presentation appeals to childhood attachments with care-givers who provided security, sustenance and direction in a world that at times appeared confusing and threatening.</div>

Bird https://develop.consumerium.org/w/index.php?title=Compliance_message&diff=3561 2004-04-13T06:39:32Z

<p>Bird: </p> <hr /> <div>A '''compliance message''' is a form of communication intended to cause a person to comply with the intentions of another. Compliance messages in public venues include face-to-face sales pitches, point-of-purchase advertisements and most mass-media [[product]] [[advertisement]]s. <br /> <br /> While compliance messages are most commonly recognized in marketing situations, the communication technique is common in child-rearing, and continues to form a large part of adult communication in many Western and colonial cultures. The form of communication was first recognized in Western language as a product of the immature [[ego]] described by Sigmund Freud, and later became recognized as reflecting a paternalistic form of communication in transactional analysis, which recognizes human interaction as reflecting the mentality of either a child, a parent or an adult. <br /> <br /> In marketing, compliance messages often mask paternalistic approaches as adult-to-adult communication, but such messages often appeal to childish interests of a [[consumer]], in an approach that presents the marketeer as a paternalistic figure. For people who have not fully realized themselves as an independent adult, a paternalistic presentation appeals to childhood attachments to care-givers who provided security, sustenance and direction in a world that at times appeared confusing and threatening.</div>

Bird https://develop.consumerium.org/w/index.php?title=Motivation&diff=3562 2004-04-13T06:22:02Z

<p>Bird: </p> <hr /> <div>You, dear [[consumer]], are exposed to thousands of messages each day enticing you to trade your money for consumer products. The messages are filled with claims about what the products will do for you. Marketeers who advance these claims usually want you to do something for them -- to give them money. These [[compliance message]]s usually infer you will realize some [[value]] by complying with the message's instructions. But these messages are usually devoid of respect your personal values; more often they tell you what values you should hold.<br /> <br /> To realize the best value for your effort, as you understand value, you need [[Features|information]] about the [[product]]s pushed by these messages, and how these items that fill your local [[w:List of supermarkets|supermarket]] got there, straight in front of your nose, packaged into coloured boxes and bags, one more tempting than the other.<br /> <br /> Information about the [[product]]s' [[Features#Indicators of Environmental Friendliness|environmental impact]], [[workers' rights]], the [[producer]]'s [[Features#Indicators of ethical aspects and social responsibility|social conscience]] - or lack thereof, all this has to be available at your fingertips. [[Features|Which company]] made the product you are considering to buy, and [[Features#Raw data|who owns the company]]?<br /> <br /> If you don't like the product or the company, don't buy it - but you could send some [[feedback]] to the producer. Tell them why you don't like the company or product, maybe the heap of mails flooding into the PR offices takes some effect. Is there somebody hiding behind the seemingly [[local value|local and small]] [[brand]], maybe a [[Brand management|multinational giant]] who exploits workers in poor [[countries]] and purchases [[commodity|commodities]] from wherever and whoever supplies them at the [[price premium|lowest price]], not caring about eg. for the human rights situation in the country they are produced in?<br /> <br /> Has somebody [[Boycott|initiated a boycott]] on the company and if so, who might these people be who dare to uphold that you are a bad [[consumer]], even a bad [[body|human being]] in case you decide to buy this product? Even if you don't deem consumption decisions a serious means of civil activism, you may be interested in what [[score|other consumers think]] about this new washing powder. Have a look on what [[comment]]s they have published on the product you want to try. Maybe the most essential thing is to find out how to use these expensive sun-dried [[tomato]]es in order to make your [[Features#Special group: Food stuffs|food taste better]]. <br /> <br /> Maybe you would like to watch a short employer, employee or labor union [[Informational Video|testimony video]] on the [[Workers' rights|working conditions]] of the production site. You wouldn't want to support [[capitalism|rampant capitalists]] exploiting workers ruthlessly, would you?<br /> <br /> ''Think what you think, value what you value, consume how you please, but if you want [[Consumerium Services|information to back your consumption decisions]], consumerium is being built for you.''</div>

Bird https://develop.consumerium.org/w/index.php?title=Consumerium:Welcome,_newcomers&diff=3965 2004-04-13T06:09:02Z

<p>Bird: </p> <hr /> <div>'''Choose:'''<br /> <br /> A) Just wondering what is this? go -&gt; [[Motivation|The Motivation that fueled the Original Concept]] -&gt; [[features|Our Planned Features]] -&gt; [[Consumerium:Philosophy|Philosophy]] -&gt; [[Consumerium:Executive summary|Executive summary]]<br /> <br /> B) New to wiki? go -&gt; [[w:How to edit a page]] and please do remember to come back -&gt; [[Wiki linking]]<br /> <br /> C) Wikipedian? go -&gt; [[Rules]]-&gt; [[What Consumerium RD Wiki is not]] -&gt; [[Guidelines]] -&gt; [[Wiki linking|Interwiki linking]] <br /> <br /> D) Documentation-happy? go -&gt; [[Cookbook]] to see a strategic focus where we want to affect buying habits OR [[Research]] OR suggest some [[features]]<br /> <br /> E) EditBot? go -&gt; away.<br /> <br /> ------<br /> Note: Many IE clients have problems detecting correctly when a page has changed (this may be due to piratism on your behalf). If you notice this behaviour you can press CTRL+Refresh to do a force-refresh.<br /> <br /> The [[Special:Preferences]] page lies about the system clock, it's not in UTC, but UTC+3, so keep that in mind to get the times presented correctly.<br /> <br /> [http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Disinfopedia:Welcome%2C_newcomers Disinfopedia Welcome page] has good advice and links to stuff on [http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=point_of_view point of view] as opposed to [[w:Wikipedia:Neutral point of view|Wikipedia:Neutral point of view]] that is enforced in [[Wikipedia]]</div>

Bird https://develop.consumerium.org/w/index.php?title=Consumerium:Village_pump&diff=3563 2004-04-13T06:04:14Z

<p>Bird: </p> <hr /> <div>&lt;table align=&quot;right&quot;&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td&gt; [[Image:Village_pump.jpg]]&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/table&gt;<br /> '''Hi and welcome to the Consumerium Village pump.''' <br /> <br /> The purpose of this page is to ask questions about how we should go about things here and answering them.<br /> ----<br /> <br /> How long do we have to wait before we can start working on the research wiki?<br /> <br /> ''From below''<br /> :::A &quot;much simpler pilot project&quot; would be to just assemble the [[Consumerium:intermediate page]]s. ''The [[Research Wiki]] consists of such pages, but we don't know what they look like yet. So please help with that.''<br /> <br /> ----<br /> <br /> This name is not good ihmo. There is nothing to buy and nothing to sell at a village pump. It is just a place to lose the soap. Please don't copy the english wiki for the sake of it.<br /> <br /> :Why not copy the 'pedia, it'll make people coming from [[Wikipedia]] feel much more home quickly.<br /> <br /> :::This is a good reason NOT to copy it, considering that we get Lir and Angela coming over... not the good Wikipedia users.<br /> <br /> My [[Consumerium:Market Place]] was a much better one.<br /> :That name would indicate there is something for sale there. I've been thinking that once we have some preliminary [[XML]] ready, then we have to set up [[Consumerium:Pseudore]] (Consumerium PSEUDo StORE), a sort of game or playground where we can test the functionality of our markup and simulate different situations eg. handling parties who wish to input [[Disinformation]] to undermine the [[Integrity]] and [[Reputation]] of the system. I'll iterate on this once it's time. [[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 14:43 Jun 15, 2003 (EEST)<br /> <br /> ::We already had one such incident, the arrival of a party who inputs disinformation and commits [[sysop vandalism]] at another [[large public wiki]], who had to be driven off. It would be good to deal with these, as you suggest, in a more disciplined and systematic role-playing way. Trolls do not want to have to do it the old-fashioned way. THe time may have come for this.<br /> <br /> Sigh. No one ever listen to a poor House Elf :-(<br /> <br /> :::Trolls do!<br /> <br /> ----<br /> <br /> Hello consumerists. I'm not sure who's in charge around here, but whoever it is, read this. Everyone else, go away ;)<br /> <br /> :Typical Wikipedian fascist attitude.<br /> <br /> I am a Wikipedia developer, and we're trying to get all system administrators who are using our software to join the newly-created MediaWiki-l mailing list. We will use this list to tell you about bugs, new releases, security problems, etc. In particular, there is a minor security flaw which we are working to fix at the moment. We expect the volume of this list to be very low.<br /> <br /> To subscribe, enter your details at:<br /> <br /> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l<br /> <br /> :Thanks, I'll do that.<br /> <br /> By the way, not everyone calls their Q&amp;A page the village pump. The French Wikipedia has a &quot;bistro&quot; for example. -- [[User:Tim Starling|Tim Starling]] 11:49, 13 Oct 2003 (EEST)<br /> <br /> :Sure. Maybe [[Consumerium:Irrigation hub]] would have been a better name [[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 12:28, 13 Oct 2003 (EEST)<br /> <br /> ::Propose [[Consumerium:Party]]. That can be like a garden party, or like a political party. Make sense?<br /> <br /> :::Umm... No?<br /> <br /> ::::You don't like parties?<br /> <br /> ----<br /> Heh. I was in the process of starting the exact same thing, only I was going to call it consumerpedia. Most excellent. I'm glad to find like-minded people. [[User:DanKeshet|DanKeshet]]<br /> <br /> :Maybe the name consumerpedia makes sense for the ordinary end user interface to the [[Consumerium:intermediate page]]s? It would make sense to specialize the user interface for those doing such lookup - maybe we should keep using [[mediawiki]] or [[GetWiki]] for that purpose. But see [[Consumerium Service access]], this is only one of several types of access. And the [[Signal Wiki]] is hopefully stuff that we can truly rely on, that has gone through some quite serious vetting.<br /> <br /> After extensive reading, I understand this place to be for the purposes of planning an unbelievably large-scale project. I do not mean to discourage you when I say that this sounds profoundly overengineered to me. It disappoints me greatly to say that, because I was very excited to first see this place. But after reading at least a dozen pages, I have no confidence that I can be of any use here. I wish you all good luck. If any of you have a desire to put together a much simpler pilot project, please contact me. My email address consists of the first letter of my first name, the first four letters of my last name, and @channel1.com. peace, [[User:DanKeshet|DanKeshet]]<br /> <br /> :The original time-scale for implementing the planned [[Features]], which are way ambitious as I've stated from the begining of this project on, has in my mind been 10 to 15 years, out of which two years have now elapsed, with the [[Goals and means of Consumerium|mission statement]] online. All help is appreciated and yes, we will have to start with a small pilot. --[[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 22:44, 11 Mar 2004 (EET)<br /> <br /> ::You know what? Let me make some edits at [[user:DanKeshet/scratchpad]] and see whether my vision fits with yours. [[User:DanKeshet|DanKeshet]] 02:14, 12 Mar 2004 (EET)<br /> <br /> :::You are correct that the original vision was &quot;profoundly overengineered&quot; in the hardware sense. If you look at [[Hardware Requirements]] you see all kinds of hardware thrown at non-problems. But that's been toned down somewhat, and there's thinking about [[audio]] and other [[terminal device]]s that already exist, that would not require hundreds of dollars of custom hardware per end user. But there are stores like the [[Big Carrot]] that prove that there is a market for a complete and exact solution that really does offer some guarantees that the data is accurate.<br /> <br /> :::A &quot;much simpler pilot project&quot; would be to just assemble the [[Consumerium:intermediate page]]s. That is roughly the scale of [[Metaweb]], which is doing exactly that. There's no reason at all not to start that right now. They too have very long term plans for a [[semantic web]] and perhaps even make Stephenson's [http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=Young_Lady's_Illustrated_Primer Young Lady's Illustrated Primer] work, making education really incredibly cheap. That too is a one-generation plan.<br /> <br /> <br /> &lt;sub&gt;The logo is from [[w:Wikipedia:Village Pump]]&lt;/sub&gt;<br /> <br /> ----<br /> Founder, you know me. Can't say a lot here, due to an on-going investigation. But salude -- you're work has streaked across the virtual sky, shining light on disinformation of the ner' do well trust-fund babies of the rich and casting some of the first shadows that outlined methods of abusive governance being taught by one conservative Florida porn-publisher. To you and the crew: I'm not asleep. &lt;i&gt;~=&lt;sub&gt;\[[User:Bird|Bird]]/&lt;/sub&gt;=~&lt;/I&gt;</div>

Bird https://develop.consumerium.org/w/index.php?title=Consumerium:Village_pump&diff=3558 2004-04-13T06:03:20Z

<p>Bird: </p> <hr /> <div>&lt;table align=&quot;right&quot;&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td&gt; [[Image:Village_pump.jpg]]&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/table&gt;<br /> '''Hi and welcome to the Consumerium Village pump.''' <br /> <br /> The purpose of this page is to ask questions about how we should go about things here and answering them.<br /> ----<br /> <br /> How long do we have to wait before we can start working on the research wiki?<br /> <br /> ''From below''<br /> :::A &quot;much simpler pilot project&quot; would be to just assemble the [[Consumerium:intermediate page]]s. ''The [[Research Wiki]] consists of such pages, but we don't know what they look like yet. So please help with that.''<br /> <br /> ----<br /> <br /> This name is not good ihmo. There is nothing to buy and nothing to sell at a village pump. It is just a place to lose the soap. Please don't copy the english wiki for the sake of it.<br /> <br /> :Why not copy the 'pedia, it'll make people coming from [[Wikipedia]] feel much more home quickly.<br /> <br /> :::This is a good reason NOT to copy it, considering that we get Lir and Angela coming over... not the good Wikipedia users.<br /> <br /> My [[Consumerium:Market Place]] was a much better one.<br /> :That name would indicate there is something for sale there. I've been thinking that once we have some preliminary [[XML]] ready, then we have to set up [[Consumerium:Pseudore]] (Consumerium PSEUDo StORE), a sort of game or playground where we can test the functionality of our markup and simulate different situations eg. handling parties who wish to input [[Disinformation]] to undermine the [[Integrity]] and [[Reputation]] of the system. I'll iterate on this once it's time. [[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 14:43 Jun 15, 2003 (EEST)<br /> <br /> ::We already had one such incident, the arrival of a party who inputs disinformation and commits [[sysop vandalism]] at another [[large public wiki]], who had to be driven off. It would be good to deal with these, as you suggest, in a more disciplined and systematic role-playing way. Trolls do not want to have to do it the old-fashioned way. THe time may have come for this.<br /> <br /> Sigh. No one ever listen to a poor House Elf :-(<br /> <br /> :::Trolls do!<br /> <br /> ----<br /> <br /> Hello consumerists. I'm not sure who's in charge around here, but whoever it is, read this. Everyone else, go away ;)<br /> <br /> :Typical Wikipedian fascist attitude.<br /> <br /> I am a Wikipedia developer, and we're trying to get all system administrators who are using our software to join the newly-created MediaWiki-l mailing list. We will use this list to tell you about bugs, new releases, security problems, etc. In particular, there is a minor security flaw which we are working to fix at the moment. We expect the volume of this list to be very low.<br /> <br /> To subscribe, enter your details at:<br /> <br /> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l<br /> <br /> :Thanks, I'll do that.<br /> <br /> By the way, not everyone calls their Q&amp;A page the village pump. The French Wikipedia has a &quot;bistro&quot; for example. -- [[User:Tim Starling|Tim Starling]] 11:49, 13 Oct 2003 (EEST)<br /> <br /> :Sure. Maybe [[Consumerium:Irrigation hub]] would have been a better name [[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 12:28, 13 Oct 2003 (EEST)<br /> <br /> ::Propose [[Consumerium:Party]]. That can be like a garden party, or like a political party. Make sense?<br /> <br /> :::Umm... No?<br /> <br /> ::::You don't like parties?<br /> <br /> ----<br /> Heh. I was in the process of starting the exact same thing, only I was going to call it consumerpedia. Most excellent. I'm glad to find like-minded people. [[User:DanKeshet|DanKeshet]]<br /> <br /> :Maybe the name consumerpedia makes sense for the ordinary end user interface to the [[Consumerium:intermediate page]]s? It would make sense to specialize the user interface for those doing such lookup - maybe we should keep using [[mediawiki]] or [[GetWiki]] for that purpose. But see [[Consumerium Service access]], this is only one of several types of access. And the [[Signal Wiki]] is hopefully stuff that we can truly rely on, that has gone through some quite serious vetting.<br /> <br /> After extensive reading, I understand this place to be for the purposes of planning an unbelievably large-scale project. I do not mean to discourage you when I say that this sounds profoundly overengineered to me. It disappoints me greatly to say that, because I was very excited to first see this place. But after reading at least a dozen pages, I have no confidence that I can be of any use here. I wish you all good luck. If any of you have a desire to put together a much simpler pilot project, please contact me. My email address consists of the first letter of my first name, the first four letters of my last name, and @channel1.com. peace, [[User:DanKeshet|DanKeshet]]<br /> <br /> :The original time-scale for implementing the planned [[Features]], which are way ambitious as I've stated from the begining of this project on, has in my mind been 10 to 15 years, out of which two years have now elapsed, with the [[Goals and means of Consumerium|mission statement]] online. All help is appreciated and yes, we will have to start with a small pilot. --[[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 22:44, 11 Mar 2004 (EET)<br /> <br /> ::You know what? Let me make some edits at [[user:DanKeshet/scratchpad]] and see whether my vision fits with yours. [[User:DanKeshet|DanKeshet]] 02:14, 12 Mar 2004 (EET)<br /> <br /> :::You are correct that the original vision was &quot;profoundly overengineered&quot; in the hardware sense. If you look at [[Hardware Requirements]] you see all kinds of hardware thrown at non-problems. But that's been toned down somewhat, and there's thinking about [[audio]] and other [[terminal device]]s that already exist, that would not require hundreds of dollars of custom hardware per end user. But there are stores like the [[Big Carrot]] that prove that there is a market for a complete and exact solution that really does offer some guarantees that the data is accurate.<br /> <br /> :::A &quot;much simpler pilot project&quot; would be to just assemble the [[Consumerium:intermediate page]]s. That is roughly the scale of [[Metaweb]], which is doing exactly that. There's no reason at all not to start that right now. They too have very long term plans for a [[semantic web]] and perhaps even make Stephenson's [http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=Young_Lady's_Illustrated_Primer Young Lady's Illustrated Primer] work, making education really incredibly cheap. That too is a one-generation plan.<br /> <br /> <br /> &lt;sub&gt;The logo is from [[w:Wikipedia:Village Pump]]&lt;/sub&gt;<br /> <br /> ----<br /> Founder, you know me. Can't say a lot here, due to an on-going investigation. But salude -- you're work has streaked across the virtual sky, shining light on disinformation of the ner' do well trust-fund babies of the rich and casting some of the first shadows that outlined methods of abusive governance being taught by one conservative Florida porn-publisher. To you and the crew: I'm not asleep. <br /> ::::::&lt;i&gt;~=&lt;sub&gt;\[[User:Bird|Bird]]/&lt;/sub&gt;=~&lt;/I&gt;</div>

Bird https://develop.consumerium.org/w/index.php?title=Consumerium:Village_pump&diff=3557 2004-04-13T06:00:31Z

<p>Bird: </p> <hr /> <div>&lt;table align=&quot;right&quot;&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td&gt; [[Image:Village_pump.jpg]]&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/table&gt;<br /> '''Hi and welcome to the Consumerium Village pump.''' <br /> <br /> The purpose of this page is to ask questions about how we should go about things here and answering them.<br /> ----<br /> <br /> How long do we have to wait before we can start working on the research wiki?<br /> <br /> ''From below''<br /> :::A &quot;much simpler pilot project&quot; would be to just assemble the [[Consumerium:intermediate page]]s. ''The [[Research Wiki]] consists of such pages, but we don't know what they look like yet. So please help with that.''<br /> <br /> ----<br /> <br /> This name is not good ihmo. There is nothing to buy and nothing to sell at a village pump. It is just a place to lose the soap. Please don't copy the english wiki for the sake of it.<br /> <br /> :Why not copy the 'pedia, it'll make people coming from [[Wikipedia]] feel much more home quickly.<br /> <br /> :::This is a good reason NOT to copy it, considering that we get Lir and Angela coming over... not the good Wikipedia users.<br /> <br /> My [[Consumerium:Market Place]] was a much better one.<br /> :That name would indicate there is something for sale there. I've been thinking that once we have some preliminary [[XML]] ready, then we have to set up [[Consumerium:Pseudore]] (Consumerium PSEUDo StORE), a sort of game or playground where we can test the functionality of our markup and simulate different situations eg. handling parties who wish to input [[Disinformation]] to undermine the [[Integrity]] and [[Reputation]] of the system. I'll iterate on this once it's time. [[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 14:43 Jun 15, 2003 (EEST)<br /> <br /> ::We already had one such incident, the arrival of a party who inputs disinformation and commits [[sysop vandalism]] at another [[large public wiki]], who had to be driven off. It would be good to deal with these, as you suggest, in a more disciplined and systematic role-playing way. Trolls do not want to have to do it the old-fashioned way. THe time may have come for this.<br /> <br /> Sigh. No one ever listen to a poor House Elf :-(<br /> <br /> :::Trolls do!<br /> <br /> ----<br /> <br /> Hello consumerists. I'm not sure who's in charge around here, but whoever it is, read this. Everyone else, go away ;)<br /> <br /> :Typical Wikipedian fascist attitude.<br /> <br /> I am a Wikipedia developer, and we're trying to get all system administrators who are using our software to join the newly-created MediaWiki-l mailing list. We will use this list to tell you about bugs, new releases, security problems, etc. In particular, there is a minor security flaw which we are working to fix at the moment. We expect the volume of this list to be very low.<br /> <br /> To subscribe, enter your details at:<br /> <br /> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l<br /> <br /> :Thanks, I'll do that.<br /> <br /> By the way, not everyone calls their Q&amp;A page the village pump. The French Wikipedia has a &quot;bistro&quot; for example. -- [[User:Tim Starling|Tim Starling]] 11:49, 13 Oct 2003 (EEST)<br /> <br /> :Sure. Maybe [[Consumerium:Irrigation hub]] would have been a better name [[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 12:28, 13 Oct 2003 (EEST)<br /> <br /> ::Propose [[Consumerium:Party]]. That can be like a garden party, or like a political party. Make sense?<br /> <br /> :::Umm... No?<br /> <br /> ::::You don't like parties?<br /> <br /> ----<br /> Heh. I was in the process of starting the exact same thing, only I was going to call it consumerpedia. Most excellent. I'm glad to find like-minded people. [[User:DanKeshet|DanKeshet]]<br /> <br /> :Maybe the name consumerpedia makes sense for the ordinary end user interface to the [[Consumerium:intermediate page]]s? It would make sense to specialize the user interface for those doing such lookup - maybe we should keep using [[mediawiki]] or [[GetWiki]] for that purpose. But see [[Consumerium Service access]], this is only one of several types of access. And the [[Signal Wiki]] is hopefully stuff that we can truly rely on, that has gone through some quite serious vetting.<br /> <br /> After extensive reading, I understand this place to be for the purposes of planning an unbelievably large-scale project. I do not mean to discourage you when I say that this sounds profoundly overengineered to me. It disappoints me greatly to say that, because I was very excited to first see this place. But after reading at least a dozen pages, I have no confidence that I can be of any use here. I wish you all good luck. If any of you have a desire to put together a much simpler pilot project, please contact me. My email address consists of the first letter of my first name, the first four letters of my last name, and @channel1.com. peace, [[User:DanKeshet|DanKeshet]]<br /> <br /> :The original time-scale for implementing the planned [[Features]], which are way ambitious as I've stated from the begining of this project on, has in my mind been 10 to 15 years, out of which two years have now elapsed, with the [[Goals and means of Consumerium|mission statement]] online. All help is appreciated and yes, we will have to start with a small pilot. --[[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 22:44, 11 Mar 2004 (EET)<br /> <br /> ::You know what? Let me make some edits at [[user:DanKeshet/scratchpad]] and see whether my vision fits with yours. [[User:DanKeshet|DanKeshet]] 02:14, 12 Mar 2004 (EET)<br /> <br /> :::You are correct that the original vision was &quot;profoundly overengineered&quot; in the hardware sense. If you look at [[Hardware Requirements]] you see all kinds of hardware thrown at non-problems. But that's been toned down somewhat, and there's thinking about [[audio]] and other [[terminal device]]s that already exist, that would not require hundreds of dollars of custom hardware per end user. But there are stores like the [[Big Carrot]] that prove that there is a market for a complete and exact solution that really does offer some guarantees that the data is accurate.<br /> <br /> :::A &quot;much simpler pilot project&quot; would be to just assemble the [[Consumerium:intermediate page]]s. That is roughly the scale of [[Metaweb]], which is doing exactly that. There's no reason at all not to start that right now. They too have very long term plans for a [[semantic web]] and perhaps even make Stephenson's [http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=Young_Lady's_Illustrated_Primer Young Lady's Illustrated Primer] work, making education really incredibly cheap. That too is a one-generation plan.<br /> <br /> <br /> &lt;sub&gt;The logo is from [[w:Wikipedia:Village Pump]]&lt;/sub&gt;<br /> <br /> ----<br /> You know me. Can't say a lot here, due to an on-going investigation. But salude -- you're work has streaked across the virtual sky, shining light on disinformation of the ner' do well trust-fund babies of the rich and casting some of the first shadows that outlined methods of abusive governance being taught by one conservative Florida porn-publisher. I'm not asleep. &lt;i&gt;~=&lt;sub&gt;\[[User:Bird|Bird]]/&lt;/sub&gt;=~&lt;/I&gt;</div>

Bird https://develop.consumerium.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Bird&diff=15505 2004-04-13T05:58:26Z

<p>Bird: </p> <hr /> <div><br /> ::'''''Go ahead, say it...'''''</div>

Bird https://develop.consumerium.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Bird&diff=3555 2004-04-13T05:57:45Z

<p>Bird: </p> <hr /> <div><br /> <br /> ::::'''''Go ahead, say it...'''''</div>

Bird https://develop.consumerium.org/w/index.php?title=User:Bird&diff=15504 2004-04-13T05:56:42Z

<p>Bird: </p> <hr /> <div><br /> <br /> ::::::::&lt;i&gt;~=&lt;sub&gt;\[[User_talk:Bird|Bird]]/&lt;/sub&gt;=~&lt;/I&gt;</div>

Bird https://develop.consumerium.org/w/index.php?title=User:Bird&diff=3554 2004-04-13T05:56:05Z

<p>Bird: </p> <hr /> <div><br /> <br /> <br /> ::::::::&lt;i&gt;~=&lt;sub&gt;\[[User:Bird|Bird]]/&lt;/sub&gt;=~&lt;/I&gt;</div>

Bird https://develop.consumerium.org/w/index.php?title=User:Bird&diff=3553 2004-04-13T05:55:28Z

<p>Bird: </p> <hr /> <div><br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> :::::::::::::&lt;i&gt;~=&lt;sub&gt;\[[User:Bird|Bird]]/&lt;/sub&gt;=~&lt;/I&gt;</div>

Bird https://develop.consumerium.org/w/index.php?title=Consumerium:Village_pump&diff=3556 2004-04-13T05:54:03Z

<p>Bird: </p> <hr /> <div>&lt;table align=&quot;right&quot;&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td&gt; [[Image:Village_pump.jpg]]&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/table&gt;<br /> '''Hi and welcome to the Consumerium Village pump.''' <br /> <br /> The purpose of this page is to ask questions about how we should go about things here and answering them.<br /> ----<br /> <br /> How long do we have to wait before we can start working on the research wiki?<br /> <br /> ''From below''<br /> :::A &quot;much simpler pilot project&quot; would be to just assemble the [[Consumerium:intermediate page]]s. ''The [[Research Wiki]] consists of such pages, but we don't know what they look like yet. So please help with that.''<br /> <br /> ----<br /> <br /> This name is not good ihmo. There is nothing to buy and nothing to sell at a village pump. It is just a place to lose the soap. Please don't copy the english wiki for the sake of it.<br /> <br /> :Why not copy the 'pedia, it'll make people coming from [[Wikipedia]] feel much more home quickly.<br /> <br /> :::This is a good reason NOT to copy it, considering that we get Lir and Angela coming over... not the good Wikipedia users.<br /> <br /> My [[Consumerium:Market Place]] was a much better one.<br /> :That name would indicate there is something for sale there. I've been thinking that once we have some preliminary [[XML]] ready, then we have to set up [[Consumerium:Pseudore]] (Consumerium PSEUDo StORE), a sort of game or playground where we can test the functionality of our markup and simulate different situations eg. handling parties who wish to input [[Disinformation]] to undermine the [[Integrity]] and [[Reputation]] of the system. I'll iterate on this once it's time. [[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 14:43 Jun 15, 2003 (EEST)<br /> <br /> ::We already had one such incident, the arrival of a party who inputs disinformation and commits [[sysop vandalism]] at another [[large public wiki]], who had to be driven off. It would be good to deal with these, as you suggest, in a more disciplined and systematic role-playing way. Trolls do not want to have to do it the old-fashioned way. THe time may have come for this.<br /> <br /> Sigh. No one ever listen to a poor House Elf :-(<br /> <br /> :::Trolls do!<br /> <br /> ----<br /> <br /> Hello consumerists. I'm not sure who's in charge around here, but whoever it is, read this. Everyone else, go away ;)<br /> <br /> :Typical Wikipedian fascist attitude.<br /> <br /> I am a Wikipedia developer, and we're trying to get all system administrators who are using our software to join the newly-created MediaWiki-l mailing list. We will use this list to tell you about bugs, new releases, security problems, etc. In particular, there is a minor security flaw which we are working to fix at the moment. We expect the volume of this list to be very low.<br /> <br /> To subscribe, enter your details at:<br /> <br /> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l<br /> <br /> :Thanks, I'll do that.<br /> <br /> By the way, not everyone calls their Q&amp;A page the village pump. The French Wikipedia has a &quot;bistro&quot; for example. -- [[User:Tim Starling|Tim Starling]] 11:49, 13 Oct 2003 (EEST)<br /> <br /> :Sure. Maybe [[Consumerium:Irrigation hub]] would have been a better name [[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 12:28, 13 Oct 2003 (EEST)<br /> <br /> ::Propose [[Consumerium:Party]]. That can be like a garden party, or like a political party. Make sense?<br /> <br /> :::Umm... No?<br /> <br /> ::::You don't like parties?<br /> <br /> ----<br /> Heh. I was in the process of starting the exact same thing, only I was going to call it consumerpedia. Most excellent. I'm glad to find like-minded people. [[User:DanKeshet|DanKeshet]]<br /> <br /> :Maybe the name consumerpedia makes sense for the ordinary end user interface to the [[Consumerium:intermediate page]]s? It would make sense to specialize the user interface for those doing such lookup - maybe we should keep using [[mediawiki]] or [[GetWiki]] for that purpose. But see [[Consumerium Service access]], this is only one of several types of access. And the [[Signal Wiki]] is hopefully stuff that we can truly rely on, that has gone through some quite serious vetting.<br /> <br /> After extensive reading, I understand this place to be for the purposes of planning an unbelievably large-scale project. I do not mean to discourage you when I say that this sounds profoundly overengineered to me. It disappoints me greatly to say that, because I was very excited to first see this place. But after reading at least a dozen pages, I have no confidence that I can be of any use here. I wish you all good luck. If any of you have a desire to put together a much simpler pilot project, please contact me. My email address consists of the first letter of my first name, the first four letters of my last name, and @channel1.com. peace, [[User:DanKeshet|DanKeshet]]<br /> <br /> :The original time-scale for implementing the planned [[Features]], which are way ambitious as I've stated from the begining of this project on, has in my mind been 10 to 15 years, out of which two years have now elapsed, with the [[Goals and means of Consumerium|mission statement]] online. All help is appreciated and yes, we will have to start with a small pilot. --[[User:Juxo|Juxo]] 22:44, 11 Mar 2004 (EET)<br /> <br /> ::You know what? Let me make some edits at [[user:DanKeshet/scratchpad]] and see whether my vision fits with yours. [[User:DanKeshet|DanKeshet]] 02:14, 12 Mar 2004 (EET)<br /> <br /> :::You are correct that the original vision was &quot;profoundly overengineered&quot; in the hardware sense. If you look at [[Hardware Requirements]] you see all kinds of hardware thrown at non-problems. But that's been toned down somewhat, and there's thinking about [[audio]] and other [[terminal device]]s that already exist, that would not require hundreds of dollars of custom hardware per end user. But there are stores like the [[Big Carrot]] that prove that there is a market for a complete and exact solution that really does offer some guarantees that the data is accurate.<br /> <br /> :::A &quot;much simpler pilot project&quot; would be to just assemble the [[Consumerium:intermediate page]]s. That is roughly the scale of [[Metaweb]], which is doing exactly that. There's no reason at all not to start that right now. They too have very long term plans for a [[semantic web]] and perhaps even make Stephenson's [http://www.metaweb.com/wiki/wiki.phtml?title=Young_Lady's_Illustrated_Primer Young Lady's Illustrated Primer] work, making education really incredibly cheap. That too is a one-generation plan.<br /> <br /> <br /> &lt;sub&gt;The logo is from [[w:Wikipedia:Village Pump]]&lt;/sub&gt;<br /> <br /> ----<br /> You know me. Can't say a lot here, due to an on-going investigation. But salude -- you're work has streaked across the virtual sky, shining light on disinformation of the ner' do well trust-fund babies of the rich and casting the some of the first shadows that outlined methods of abusive governance being taught by one conservative Florida porn-publisher. I'm not asleep. &lt;i&gt;~=&lt;sub&gt;\[[User:Bird|Bird]]/&lt;/sub&gt;=~&lt;/I&gt;</div>

Bird